Case cleaning water disposal

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Tony k

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I'm considering getting some sort of wet media case cleaning system, but I keep thinking about how to dispose of the used water. It's likely to be contaminated with lead from the primer compound.

I'm on a septic system on a small acreage. I and all of my neighbors get drinking water from wells--some are pretty shallow. If I was on a municipal water system, I wouldn't bat an eye at pouring tumbler water down the drain, but I keep wondering if the lead and other contaminants will settle out in my septic tank, or if they will stay suspended in the water, flowing into the drain field, ultimately ending up in my neighbor's drinking water in a couple decades. Pouring it on the ground seems like a bad idea too.

What do you all do with it? Am I over thinking this?
 
Scooter22 said:
Stay with the dry media and wear a mask.
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I don't wear a mask. I've used a Lyman tumbler with a sifter lid for years in my shop. I have no idea what my blood lead levels are. I guess you're saying there's no free lunch in this. I bag up old media and haul it to the dump.
 
I think you will be OK. I doubt any lead in the water from tumbling is high enough to actually cause issues unless you are dumping 1000s of gallons a year into your septic.

That being said, I wonder what the PPM of lead in a gallon of water from tumbling is?
 
As mentioned probably no one knows the PPM of lead (and other toxins) are in the used rinsate. In theory I would guess that lead being a heavy metal would settle into the sludge and then be pumped out when you have the septic tank pumped. Then the sludge goes elsewhere to pollute someplace else.

If you were on city sewer you should be concerned about dumping waste down the drain (just like any unused medicine, pesticides etc) why send it to someone else??. Which is why lots of cities have toxic wast collection sites. People just don't care
I use dry media and put the used media in a plastic bag and send it to the garbage incinerator. Even if it goes to a landfill there are much worse toxins thrown away and the landfill is lined..

Even with all that the amount of lead exposure (primers)is MORE when actually shooting and most of the lead is at the range, on your clothing, and the dust gets kicked up when sweeping,
 
I work for a company that teaches EPA lead safety. The only approved method of disposing of lead contaminated water is to flush it down a toilet.

This method is because waste water treatment plants are setup to filter lead. Also because the traps in drains may hold the lead, so they say the the toilet is the only safe way.

My recommendation is that you're wise to be concerned about lead. Don't go crazy worrying about it. But use proper protective wear, keep the work area free of food and drink, don't spread it to your home and clean and dispose of properly and you'll be fine.

As for others comments. I personally think many take lead poisoning too lightly.
 
Hokie_PhD said:
I work for a company that teaches EPA lead safety. The only approved method of disposing of lead contaminated water is to flush it down a toilet.

This method is because waste water treatment plants are setup to filter lead. Also because the traps in drains may hold the lead, so they say the the toilet is the only safe way.

My recommendation is that you're wise to be concerned about lead. Don't go crazy worrying about it. But use proper protective wear, keep the work area free of food and drink, don't spread it to your home and clean and dispose of properly and you'll be fine.

As for others comments. I personally think many take lead poisoning too lightly.
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I was hoping someone on here had Some experience and expertise in lead abatement.

I wonder if the contaminants including lead are merely suspended in the water, or if the water is saturated with them. If it's the former, I could simply filter the water as I pour it into mymseptic system, then dispose of the filter media properly (whatever that entails).

If it's saturated into the water, the only way to get it out would be to chemically precipitate it out, right? I'm not a chemistry expert
 
Tony k said:
I don't wear a mask. I've used a Lyman tumbler with a sifter lid for years in my shop. I have no idea what my blood lead levels are. I guess you're saying there's no free lunch in this. I bag up old media and haul it to the dump.
Click to expand...

I put on a mask when I dump the cases out to separate so I don't breath the dust. Not so much for the lead but the dust. Been reloading, and casting over 40 years plus worked on old homes that have lead paint. I decided to get my blood lead level checked around 55(58 now) years old just as a precaution. No lead.. But I still put on a mask when messing with dusty stuff.

Sorry for the confusion. I showed no lead levels.
 
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Scooter22 said:
I put on a mask when I dump the cases out to separate so I don't breath the dust. Not so much for the lead but the dust. Been reloading, and casting over 40 years plus worked on old homes that have lead paint. I decided to get my blood lead level checked around 55(58 now) just as a precaution. No lead.. But I still put on a mask when messing with dusty stuff.
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Probably something I could incorporate pretty easily.

Is 55 good or high?
 
Every time this issue arises I have to sit on my hands for fear I will say something that will surely offend one side or the other. I will only say, There are laws, and there are opinions and never shall the twain meet. I spent a career in Environmental Protection.
 
grandpawj said:
Every time this issue arises I have to sit on my hands for fear I will say something that will surely offend one side or the other. I will only say, There are laws, and there are opinions and never shall the twain meet. I spent a career in Environmental Protection.
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I've been thinking about this for a while. Doing online research. Nothing really satisfied my question, so I decided to post the question here knowing full well that it is a loaded topic.

The chasm between regulations and reality is a daily reality for me in my work. Believe me, I get your point.
 
Hmmm. How much lead is in a gallon of waste water from wet tumbling? How much of the lead would get passed the "filtering" of the soil, down to the water table? My feelings is many over think (fear?) lead poisoning and it would probable take a century or two, with waste water on a commercial basis, to affect the well water. But, I dunno, I lived in LA for 60+ years, cast my own bullets for 25+ years, shot at an indoor range with pre '80 EPA ventilation for mebbe 30 years, average twice per month, used a Lyman wobbler with a slotted top for ??? years, worked right down town on heavy equipment and my annual blood/lead tests always came back "normal"...
 
Tony k said:
I was hoping someone on here had Some experience and expertise in lead abatement.

I wonder if the contaminants including lead are merely suspended in the water, or if the water is saturated with them. If it's the former, I could simply filter the water as I pour it into mymseptic system, then dispose of the filter media properly (whatever that entails).

If it's saturated into the water, the only way to get it out would be to chemically precipitate it out, right? I'm not a chemistry expert
Click to expand...

The plants are set up to have the heavy metals drop to the bottom of the tanks. They then have pushers that push the metals into a recovery system.
It's why the EPA recommends flushing it.

As for your septic, it's also ok. The lead falls to the bottom of your septic tank. When you have the tank emptied, the company sucks up everything there and dumps it into the public system and it goes to the waste water plant. So no harm there either.

And thanks for asking about this. I've posted about this before, and it can be annoying have people post opinions and question this and say it's wrong. Yet they have no idea and haven't been trained in lead safety nor read the lead laws. I've dealt with this stuff for the last 6 years and it's not complicated, but very specific. On top of that, my dad has built several waste water treatment plants and I've discussed it with him, and he confirmed that the EPA not only is right, but explained the way the plant works (yes we're both engineers so we love the technical talk) So I'm glad you're interested and want to do things right. So thank you.
 
I think my septic tank is typical 1500 gallons. My well also typical for this area is 180 feet deep.

Then there is the actual amount of lead left on a pc of fired brass. That amount is probably far less than a trace amount. So the question is how will an almost undetectable amount of an element make it through 150 or so feet of soil to the water supply without binding with something else along the way?
 
You could let the water evaporate in a flat container. Once full of residue, you can dispose of it as a hazardous waste. It'll probably take many years to fill an evaporator tub.

Keep a mesh on it to prevent animals and insects drinking from it.
 
Hokie_PhD said:
I work for a company that teaches EPA lead safety ... I personally think many take lead poisoning too lightly.
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Not me. Shooting at indoor range raised my blood level high enough for my doctor to report to Department of Public Health (Reporting threshold is above 10 and my level was 12). My doctor and I identified the primary source of lead intake to breathing in lead dust while picking up spent brass from indoor range floor and not shooting indoors for several months lowered my lead level down to normal - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ealth-information.307170/page-12#post-9625420

I now do all of my shooting outdoors with plenty of ventilation and no more lead issue.
 
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Wondering if depriming prior to wet tumbling would help reduce the lead content of the waste water from tumbling? Just a thought, as I think most of the lead from a fired case is or was in the primer.
 
thomas15 said:
I think my septic tank is typical 1500 gallons. My well also typical for this area is 180 feet deep.

Then there is the actual amount of lead left on a pc of fired brass. That amount is probably far less than a trace amount. So the question is how will an almost undetectable amount of an element make it through 150 or so feet of soil to the water supply without binding with something else along the way?
Click to expand...

I bet a lot of it depends on water pH and local geology. My well is 500' deep and I'm right up against an Alpine wilderness ($$$$$). I think I'm safe. at least one of the seasonal neighbors near me has aa well that'sl iterally 13' deep and is basically just filled with this year's snowmelt.

bds said:
Not me. Shooting at indoor range raised my blood level high enough for my doctor to report to Department of Public Health (Reporting threshold is above 10 and my level was 12). My doctor and I identified the primary source of lead intake to breathing in lead dust while picking up spent brass from indoor range floor and not shooting indoors for several months lowered my lead level down to normal - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ealth-information.307170/page-12#post-9625420

I now do all of my shooting outdoors with plenty of ventilation and no more lead issue.
Click to expand...

I think I might be a little lax about tumbler dust. I don't want to go down this path

santacruzdave said:
Wondering if depriming prior to wet tumbling would help reduce the lead content of the waste water from tumbling? Just a thought, as I think most of the lead from a fired case is or was in the primer.
Click to expand...

That's an interesting solution. I wonder how much of the lead styphnate stays confined to the primer. I suspect it's low considering it's the actual explosive in the primer.
 
Hokie_PhD said:
As for your septic, it's also ok. The lead falls to the bottom of your septic tank. When you have the tank emptied, the company sucks up everything there and dumps it into the public system and it goes to the waste water plant. So no harm there either.
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Not here in Montana. The companies that pump the septics and port-a-poties take it out and spread it on whatever ranchers ground that wants it for crop fertilization.
 
Plant roots don't uptake lead as a mineral in the cation exchange in the soil.

Lead is relatively inert and doesn't like to combine with low energy compounds. So it likes to stay put. It doesn't travel easily and it's contamination vectors are easily traced. It does not move through soil layers easily and is not transported by water that is not also moving tracts of land.

Putting the dust in the water keeps it out of the air and lungs. Hand washing keeps it out of the mouth. Pouring the water in the drain keeps a tray of friable lead dust from being jostled around in the garage. Pouring it out on the lawn returns it to the ground, from whence it came.
(Though I don't recommend that. Shoe to floor contamination. That, and I have omnipotent, opressive control over my yard, Augusta National has nothing on my lawn...:))

You won't poison your neighbors with lead, unless ya shoot 'em...;)

A caviler attitude about lead is never prudent. I commend you on your concern for the neighborhood.

I have abated lead and asbestos for eleven years. I have shot and handloaded for five and three respectively. My blood level is still zero.
 
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