AWB '94 vs VA 2020

I’m not sure what to say.

I can say, I’ve only wondered why people in NY, CA, NJ etc let things go so far. The attitude of just move never made sense to me. You can only run so long.

So with that said, I’m proud to be a Virginian, and proud that we’re the ones who are saying ENOUGH.

like Washington, Oregon and other states where people fled high taxes and far left wing rule only to vote the same people in, we are seeing it in Northern Virginia. It’s like New York City consoling the state.

I’m not sure if this answers your question. But I too am afraid it’s a tinder box about to explode. I hope and pray that some of the so called moderate Democrats see all the effort that has been activated by pro 2nd Amendment supporters, and cross the isle and vote against the proposed laws. But I doubt it. But as we saw in 20@6 miracles can happen. Maybe with all the effort we’re putting in to finally fight another will happen.

Hokie_PhD said:

I’ve only wondered why people in NY, CA, NJ etc let things go so far.

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Because we were lied to and we were stupid to believe them.

As 2A Sanctuary Movement spreads, gun owners are wiser and won't be fooled again as they won't believe the lies the anti gun/2A law makers are saying (But we do believe they want to take our AR15s and AK47s)

D.B. Cooper said:

what has changed?

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A lot:

• The antis tried to reason "common sense" gun reform to gun owners and we believed them
• Gun owners did not see the "slippery slope" of gun control and believed the "grandfathering" of guns not thinking of gun rights for future generations
• Gun owners were not aware of level of gun control that would be passed in CA, IL, NY, etc.
• Gun ban/confiscation of UK, Australia, New Zealand did not happen yet
• AWB expired on September 13, 2004 (Antis won't make the same mistake again)

Now we know that:

• The antis want total gun ban and confiscation as their "end game" ... They even told us
• O'Rourke's infamous, "Hell yes, we are taking your AR15s and AK47s" and all Democrat presidential candidates supported the intent
• Gun owners now know they were lied to by the antis and we are sliding down the slippery slope fast
• Gun ban/confiscation of UK, Australia, New Zealand happened
• Anti gun/2A judges were appointed to federal courts and ruled against gun rights/2A
• Hundreds of anti gun/2A gun control bills were introduced and many have become laws
• Hundreds more gun control bills are being pushed in many states as we speak now
• Gun control and magazine capacity restriction did not prevent crime/shootings
• Pro gun/2A organizations started suing/challenging gun control laws and started winning as courts ruled them unconstitutional
• Gun owners want to protect/preserve the 2A for their future generations
• Pro gun/2A judges were appointed to federal courts and have/will rule for gun rights/2A

And DC v Heller happened and additional court cases further advanced application of 2A to individual right, modern firearms, devices and technologies, etc. with courts calling magazines "arms" in recent cases - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...upported-by-facts.860188/page-2#post-11317512

The internet happened.

My thoughts are that “The People” have awakened to the reality that our government institutions are not as honest or forthcoming as we had thought in the past - simply put, we get lied to a lot or a skewed opinion at best - we get manipulated more than we get governed. As was mentioned with the internet (specifically news feeds and social media), people get a deeper overview today. With the ability to instantly review past sound bits, the blatant hypocrisy knows no bounds.
We are simply more aware and that awareness is not of a positive view if how we are governed. We now see that we are being cheated and robbed by dishonest people that plunder with the laws that they make. The growing consensus is that our government (or at least the majority of it) is out of control with no resolution in sight. Hopelessness and frustration then eventually leads to conflict - history tells us that again and again and again.

After NY and CT people now know that things can happen in the dead of night with not a hint of a democratic process. Lawmakers are told by their leaders to vote for a bill unseen or there will be repercussions for them. "You'll find out what's in it when you read it after you vote for it."

Fool me once, shame on you.....

As someone else mentioned, the advent of the internet and the 24-hour news cycle have altered the landscape.

The average Virginia moderate Democrat I talk to doesn't have a clue about what will be proposed in this session of the state legislature.

The issue of gun violence does concern him, not enough to research it and study it, but enough that he'd like to see a few laws passed. Sometime long ago in a college lecture, when he was nineteen, he learned the danger of looking at things in terms of black & white. He was taught that truth is rarely, perhaps never, found at the extremes. He wants to believe that the Democrats he supports don't want a total gun ban. Everybody, he believes, could be happy, if we could just give up something with reasonable smiling grace.

When countered with the possibility of rather than passing a new set of restrictions, he might study the results of those places that already have those restrictions, his answer is, "Naw, too hard." Besides, why should he? CNN has already done that for him, and they're satisfied. Why shouldn't he be?

Meanwhile, the camera pans select shots of the people gathered at the board of supervisors sanctuary meetings. If those people are for something, isn't that sure proof it's wrong?

So the question is can our moderate Democrat stomach the actual reality of an American democracy in action?

The issue hinges upon him. And the issue is in doubt.

The internet has a lot to do with the difference now. We are also more deeply divided as a country now.

P5 Guy said:

The internet happened.

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Truth.

If you don't know what a dial up modem and bulletin boards are then look them up. There was an online presence before the internet.

I was very active on bulletin boards during the run up to the '94 AWB. There were many of us on the bulletin boards who were against the AWB. However getting the attention of the average gun owning FUDD was nearly impossible. They saw no reason why those "evil" rifles shouldn't be outlawed.

After the sunset of the AWB there was a pent up demand. Many people bought one of the banned items just to see what all the noise was about. They then discovered that those banned rifles were actually fun to shoot and actually had legitimate uses.

Now some, not all of those FUDDs have opened their eyes. They finally realize what we were trying to tell them back in '94, it's a slippery slope. The left wants total disarmament. The internet has helped with this. It's now much easier to let people know what's happening on the other side of the country.

When it comes down to state level actions the sad fact is that most people can't just leave the state when things turn against them. They are tied down by jobs and family.

I know many fine people trapped behind enemy lines in Oregon and Washington. Most of them are counting the days till they are able to escape.

I think non-compliance resistance is the most likely outcome, along with organized political and economic movements (i.e., boycotts), perhaps. Hate to say it but the average law abiding gun owner who is politically engaged has much to lose by not carefully considering their response or to use the term, overreacting. Solo actors that take anything to an extreme will simply be branded as law breakers. It takes a national will and a collective conscience to do anything on the scale of what we see in the case of urban upheavals, which on the surface occur over issues that seem to me to be of less validity than widespread gun prohibition or gun confiscation.

The difference is in the prospective vs. retrospective nature of the ban, and its scope. The '94 federal ban was "tolerable" because it didn't affect existing ownership. Anyone could still get an AR-15, except that he would have to pay a little more for a "pre-ban" model, or settle for a gun that lacked certain features such as a bayonet lug or flash hider. And remember that far fewer people owned such things in the first place. Nevertheless, the ban cost the Democrats control of Congress in the '94 elections.

Today, in Virginia, the antis are pushing this thing to the limit. They would have been smarter to take it one step at a time.

OK I hate to sound like a dummy but whats going on in VA? I am not on AR15 and while I own one AR rifle its at the bottom of my list of favorite guns and never gets shot. I bought it more out of curiosity.

Is there new noise about another AWB?

Search on Virginia, there are numerous threads in General and Activism

D.B. Cooper said:

I'm not sure how many House seats are up for reelection next year (should be 50%, if my math is right, with a 2-yr term of office), and I'm not sure how many of those will even be competitive.

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The entire House is up for election in even-numbered years. But, typically, only 40-50 seats are competitive. That's enough to shift control.

The conventional wisdom these days is that the Democrats will lose seats in 2020, but not enough to lose control. Impeachment might be a bigger driver than the gun issue.

Moving to a "free state" is no longer long-term viable option as one by one, states have introduced anti gun bills and passed them. What has happened in OR and WA and happening in VA are examples that running away from problem is not the solution but staying and fighting is.

LiveLife said:

• Hundreds of anti gun/2A gun control bills were introduced and many have become laws
• Hundreds more gun control bills are being pushed in many states as we speak now

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But these anti gun laws were unconstitutional laws passed by the legislative and executive branches of our government and when "We the People" challenged these unconstitutional laws, the lower courts (packed with anti gun/2A judges for decades) ruled against 2A

LiveLife said:

• Anti gun/2A judges were appointed to federal courts and ruled against gun rights/2A

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AlexanderA said:

the ban cost the Democrats control of Congress in the '94 elections.

Today, in Virginia, the antis are pushing this thing to the limit. They would have been smarter to take it one step at a time.

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Actually, the antis really don't have much choice but to go "all in" that we are seeing across the nation. Thankfully, Obama didn't push for appointment of federal judges while Senate delayed approval of judges which left Trump to fill these vacancies at record setting pace to 183 by end of the year and he will continue in 2020 and beyond if he gets re-elected - https://biglawbusiness.com/trump-judicial-confirmation-goal-hit-in-year-end-senate-sprint

And as justice Gorsuch promised and said during his book tour, the Supreme Court justices will do their job of being the backstop of We the People's liberties and "enforce" the rights listed in the Bill of Rights, all of them, to include the Second Amendment. For years, the Supreme Court refused to hear gun rights cases but recently changed their mind and cases that challenged unconstitutional laws passed by the states will be finally heard by now "Originalist" Supreme Court bench.

Federal courts and SCOTUS turning pro gun/2A could change the future landscape for gun rights/2A for generations as judges serve for life as they overturn unconstitutional laws passed by the legislative and executive branches. And like DC v Heller, when SCOTUS rules to enforce the Constitution and the Bill of Rights to include "modern" provision to the original intent of the framers, decades of anti gun law makers and presidents' work could be undone. Writing is certainly on the wall and as Trump's re-election is likely, judicial future looks like it's already sealed in favor of gun rights/2A.

So the antis have no choice but to push as much as possible to pass as many anti gun laws and why there are literally hundreds of anti gun bills (some for just one state) being written to be pushed through various states as we speak right now in the hopes that some or most of these laws will remain after the courts challenge the constitutionality of them.

And I believe that's why the 2A Sanctuary Movement originally started in IL and now spreading to other states like VA is history in the making and very different from past protests because gun owners know they have been pushed into the corner by antis and now must stand up and say no more as giving in and compromising did not work. While the 2A Sanctuary Movement is symbolic; however, it is revolutionary as timing of federal courts turning pro gun/2A and SCOTUS likely ruling for enforcement of Second Amendment with expanded interpretation (like DC v Heller and Caetano v. Massachusetts) could change the future of our gun rights.

So, we are at the "D-Day" for our fight for liberty against the anti gun crowd as I have been posting the past year. And as it is clear to many, it is now time for all the gun owners to come together and stand up for ours and future generations' gun rights to protect and preserve the Second Amendment - Voting for pro gun/2A law makers in future elections.

AlexanderA said:

D.B. Cooper said:

But it's a lot too soon to start day dreaming about an entirely red federal government.

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The entire House is up for election in even-numbered years. But, typically, only 40-50 seats are competitive. That's enough to shift control.

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I have a feeling if 2A Sanctuary Movement continues to grow, it could become a key factor in 2020 presidential debate (As every Democrat candidate is against gun rights/2A so it doesn't matter who wins the primary) and carry forward to turn the House red in 2022 as already indicated by Swing State voters monitored by the Engagious Swing Voter Project - https://engagious.com/swingvoters/

[quote/]
So I don't know what has changed in 25 years, other than now everyone and his brother owns an AR, to help turn this issue into a flash point for armed, civil insurrection.[/QUOTE]

Internet and ability to communicate definitely has changed. We also had 9/11 and a complete 180 on the general attitude towards armed self defense. Many young people today have no memory of a time the US was not at war or under threat of terrorism. Ownership and training with military style gear, tactics, and weapons used to be fringe or reinactors. Now it's not only commonplace, it's considered so normal as to be a central tennent of most all the video gaming industry (which also contributes to the mindset). It is suprisingly easy to influence people now, and those voices can amplify themselves without being simply ignored or sidelined by media and government. I don't have an opinion on right/wrong of it. It simply exists and is not going away.

Ratshooter said:

OK I hate to sound like a dummy but whats going on in VA?

Is there new noise about another AWB?

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Sweeping anti gun bills were introduced that essentially ban semi-auto long guns and includes confiscation without grandfathering. It is not another AWB but end of semi-auto carbines/rifles with hundreds of more anti-gun bills being written as we speak.

This video interview of Virginia Citizens Defense League president clearly outlines why VA anti-gun bills must be stopped with more on this thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/virginias-next-move.858689/

What is happening in Virginia seems like a gun rights issue and it is on the surface. However I think that this is the tip of a much larger issue. Politicians have been eating away at the rights of the people for over 100 years. The seventeenth amendment passed in 1912 and took the power of the senate away from the states and gave the power to the senators under a federal structure. No longer were they beholding to the states. There are hundreds of examples of the consolidation of power away from the people and into the federal government. Most of that consolidation is directly opposed to the Constitution and the framers ideals of limited power for the federal government. They have taken over our education system and our courts and slowly eroded our property rights. They have trashed our Judaeo Christian heritage and mutilated our free speech rights. All of this done in the name of 'the common good'. Where have the voices of the people been this entire time?

As far as gun control it did not start with the assault weapons ban. There were gun control acts in 1934, 1968 and 1986 and I am sure many laws and regulation created to continue curbing our right to bear arms. This has been a long process and gun owners have not fought well to preserve our rights. Now progressives believe it is their right to take our guns. And many non gun owners minds have been poisoned against guns by the media and they are uneducated about the second amendment by the schools run by the federal government.

The internet has made more information available to more people so the lies that we are told can be exposed. But there are as many or more lies on the internet than there is truth. I think that the sentiment about revolution in Virginia is the same one that drove the election of Trump. People are just fed up with the constant erosion of our rights by people who only seek power and wealth. Hopefully it is not to late to save our country.

So I don't know what has changed in 25 years, other than now everyone and his brother owns an AR, to help turn this issue into a flash point for armed, civil insurrection.

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-Internet
In 1994 people wrote letters to the editor of their local newspaper. Now there’s an actual online community. People don’t feel isolated now the way they did then.
-A portion of the country moved to the left and most shooters either stayed the same politically and were demonized as ‘extremists’ (or worse) or they moved further to the right because they saw the writing on the wall and realized voting wasn’t going to solve their problems since the other side could just import more voters.
-More shooters have AR’s and other semi-auto mag fed rifles and braced pistols than they did in 1994. Shooting interests changed. Competitive games increased in number. People wanted the same guns they used in the military. These guns were marketed for home defense. Training opportunities increased. Video games and movies helped with exposure.