WVsig
Member
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2012
- Messages
- 2,063
Good luck with your campaign to erase BHP from the lexicon of gun enthusiasts, and replace it with the "Saive High Power". Seems like a hard sell to me but I have no horse in this race. Never owned one and don't want to. Every time I fired one the hammer bite was comparable to an original 1911 with the spade hammer and short grip safety. Ouch!
Dave
No one is trying to erase the BHP from the lexicon and replace it with "Siave High Power". I do not understand why so many people insist on being **slow to accept the facts that are being presented.? The development of the BHP came up in another thread recently. Most of the info posted was based in myth not facts so I put together a post which states my opinion which is based in facts vs opinions like mavracer's which seem to be based on opinions only. Stating the turth behind the development of the pistol doesn't change its name. It doesn't take away from JMB legacy. It does not change the pistol it simply gives credit where credit is due.
Didn’t Colt’s hold the 1911 patents at the time of the French trials? If so, does anyone doubt that JMB wouldn’t have used his 1911 design components in the BHP, or any future pistols he might have designed? The fact that Saive incorporated some of them doesn’t detract from what he refined, from the prototype to the finished product, nor does it any way detract from the earlier influence of JMB.
As Sistema1927 stated: “The GP/P35/Hi-Power is a masterpiece, and both Browning and Saive are to be celebrated.”
Sam
According to Anthony Vanderlinden : "Collectors often believe that the High Power was developed in response to the French military specifications for a new pistol in the 1920s.
Although the High Power may have its roots in the early years of the French pistol trials, its development represented a distinct and discrete branch. The pistol known as the High Power evolved under the name "Le Grand Rendement" (High Efficiency), Le Grand Rendement was the early marketing name for what would become the Grande Puissance. (High Power)." * Direct quote from his book.FN Browning Pistols
High Power was not really born until 1935. The exact spec of the early trials are not mentioned by Vanderlinden. One can assume that the patents Colt held for the 1911 were respected and in fact enforced in Europe by FN. We will never know what JMB would have done had those patents not been in place or what he would have done if he had lived long enough to see them expire.
In R Blake Stevens book The Browning High Power Automatic Pistol he states talks about secret plans of the French to modify Sprinfield bolt action rifles into some sort of semi-automatic carbine like pistol firing 7.65 X 20mm cartridges from a 32 round mag. There is however no real documentation of this. He does however state:
"The first request actually on record however, dated the 9th of May, 1921, was for a large powerful pistol, with a calibre of about 9mm, a barrel 20cm (nearly 8 inches) long. and a magazine capacity of at least 15 cartridges. The arm was to weigh not more than one kilogram (2.2lbs) and be fitted with a graduated sight adjustable for a maximum range of 600 metres. Such an arm was also to be fitted with a removable shoulder stock."
There is nothing in the spec about it being striker fired which Mavracer stated earlier in the thread. It does not address how the spec was to achieved at all. So there is not really any insight into why the two prototypes ended up the way the did beyond its size, weight, capacity and the minimum round to be fired.
For this this is an interesting exercise. I am not trying to rewrite history. I am not trying to change how we look at this pistol. I am simply hoping to bring clarity to its development. When you read Vanderlinden and Stevens books and look at the detailed diagrams you can see the evolution of this pistol. The original technical designs of the Grand Renedement you see just how different it is from the pistol fielded by the Belgians in 1935. I have kicked around this concept for years after getting these books and researching them and the gun further. I found it troubling how many myths about the pistol which are told time and time again are not backed up by facts. Many have just been repeated so many times they are gospel. For me the truth about the guns development us enlightening. I enjoy the process. I enjoy learning and refining my thoughts on the subject. That is the purpose behind this thread not to change the name or discredit JMB. I am not sure why people take it any other way.
**Edited to remove what some considered an ad hominem attack
Last edited: