Autoloader vs Revolvers...

Kleanbore said:

Yes. That's not a bad discourse on one aspect of requirements derivation--at its worst..

We always try to be as objective as possible The decision to not require super cruise in the F-35 was based on objective analysis, and not on what someone thought to be important.

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LOL yeah no. Airplanes are mechanical embodiments of subjective values held in the air by physics. Seriously, they are studies in compromise, with every aspect balanced to forward one subjective standard: “Intended mission.” And yes, the mission is a subjective standard. Even within a mission, values play a big part. Designing a jet? Do you commit to FOD walks or use FOD guards? That’s a values question, with a subjective answer.

That’s why you can’t say that an F-35 is better than a Diamond DA-40, or that either is better than a Citation X, without sounding clueless. They are all excellent when viewed through the subjective filter of their particular mission, and awful when viewed through the subjective filter of each other’s missions. To try and view them objectively is either a study in self delusion (being objective within a subjective context is being subjective) or an example of insanity.

I’m not disparaging your values, by the way. I share many of them. I’m just pointing out that this thing you think is an objective truth, isn’t, and there are always different ways of looking at the same problems that will yield different results. Those results may seem ludicrous to you through the filter of your subjective values, but to the people with different values, your choices seem ludicrous too.

Kleanbore said:

I'm afraid I have no idea of why you think any of that would pertain to my simple statement that whether a firearm is "fun to shoot" would constitute a very poor overarching criterion for selecting it carry for for self preservation.

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You didn’t make a “simple statement”. By the time I responded you had three posts that were all variations on the theme of, “it’s not fun for me (and shouldn’t be for you)”. You were giving every impression that you saw what you perceived to be Wrong Thought and were trying to correct it by offering what was obvious to you as Correct Thought.

But your interpretation was - from my point of view - in error (nobody claimed that fun was an “overarching criterion” for them) and your attempt to assert Correct Thought in what is an essentially a personal values based decision (self defense) is a bit over the top anyway.

There is nothing wrong with choosing a gun that meets your requirements and is fun to shoot. There is nothing saying that your requirements need to align with anyone else’s. Attempting to share your subjective (however rationally founded you may think them) standards is fine, but seeing your subjective standards as the only acceptable Correct Thought is just a form of fundamentalism and fundamentalists are bores.

If that wasn’t what you were trying to do, you should reassess your writing style. It’s entirely possible you are giving impressions you don’t intend.

bdickens said:

As long as it's still there when you reach for it and that you don't find yourself grabbing the barrel b/c it got moved around. Not to mention now you're faced with the same problem as the guy whose cheap, crappy holster comes out of his pants along with the gun....

What trainer in the world would ever recommend sleeping with a gun under your pillow, holster or not? I bet none.

There are a myriad of much more suitable ways to keep a firearm close at hand during the night. Hell, even laying it on the nightstand is better.

It is painfully obvious that some of y'all have never given any serious thought to the potential downsides.

It's a lot like working on your car supported only by a jack. People get away with it all the time. You might get away with it 10000 times but all it takes is one failure and very bad things can happen. Anyone with any sense will tell you not to. Ever.

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apparently, you have never been tent camping in bear country.

i stand by my way of protecting myself. if it upsets you, i suggest you don't do it.

murf

Kleanbore said:

I would not include "fun" on the list of desired performance parameters for a defensive firearm.

I bought a 642 because it seemed to be "convenient". My Ruger SR 9c was no larger, it had higher capacity, and a much better trigger and grip.

I wonder how many of them would have chosen them had equivalent six shot models been available....

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Disagree..if it's not FTS, Fun To Shoot, you won't shoot it as much, you won't be convinced of it's reliability and you won't get as 'good' with it as you would otherwise.

I had a 642 also..hated shooting it, so, sold it. I had a Ruger LCP, same, Ruger LC-9s, same....

Kleanbore said:

Who said it should not be something that that one would want to shoot?

My carry pistol is is quite shootable.

I don't really consider shooting it to be "fun" however--I practice with it for very serious business, and I do don't consider that to be a shooting sport.

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OK, get it..I enjoy shooting a LOT, so for me, FTS is high on the list for any gun I own, whether it be a defensive gun or not. I owned a Glock 43..really disliked shooting it(bumm wrist and RH thumb)..so traded it for a G26..which I really love to shoot..grip width and weight. For ME, any gun I own is gonna get shot a lot, cuz it's really fun..and a added benefit is I see that t's reliable and I get better with it..

BUT, I don't see that shooting it, for 'very serious business', and it being enjoyable are mutually exclusive.
What Ed said..

There is nothing wrong with choosing a gun that meets your requirements and is fun to shoot.

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YMMV and all that.

I like both the "old-school" revolver and the modern semi-auto. I'm attracted to the classic design of revolvers, which include some of the most beautiful handguns ever made. I enjoy the recoil impulse of a .38spl +P or 357Mag in a heavy wheel gun. I do find it more difficult to find grips that fit me well. As much as I like them, I just don't see revolvers as being as practical a tool in the modern age as a semi-auto, but I wouldn't be without one; they're so much fun at the range.

I too like both.
For home defense, car defense & trail protection I prefer the revolver because 38+P/357 Mag & 44 Special/Mag are my preferred calibers for those circumstances.
For CC I prefer a compact semi auto pistol because it is more easily concealed.
For center fire target shooting I like both equally, either a 1911 - 45 ACP or a good target revolver in 38 Special are both very accurate.
For 22LR I prefer target semi autos but I enjoy my Ruger Single Six nearly as much.

I like them both. Revolvers are normally used in the field. Autos for carry and HD. You are worried about sleeping with a gun in the bed, I have slept with a loaded rife in a sleeping bag many times. USMC!

I've been a revolver shooter for almost 50 years so I have more revolvers than autos. I like the autos I have but I dislike the feel of the slide action flopping back and forth and bending over to pick up brass.

With my 617's I can load, shoot and reload faster that any of my semi-autos.

DS-10-SPEED said:

I've been a revolver shooter for almost 50 years so I have more revolvers than autos. I like the autos I have but I dislike the feel of the slide action flopping back and forth and bending over to pick up brass.

With my 617's I can load, shoot and reload faster that any of my semi-autos.

View attachment 914684

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You need to practice your magazine fed reloads then. Even Jerry Miculek can reload a semi-auto faster than a revolver.

mcb said:

You need to practice your magazine fed reloads then. Even Jerry Miculek can reload a semi-auto faster than a revolver.

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That may be true but I have no desire to do that.

It's just a joke guys, I never try to re-load that fast.

DS-10-SPEED said:

That may be true but I have no desire to do that.

It's just a joke guys, I never try to re-load that fast.

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It appears you might have more money invested in speed-loaders than the revolver is worth? And I though I was bad about moonclips.


About 1/3 of my moonclips... But they are a lot cheaper than your speed-loaders.

mcb said:

It appears you might have more money invested in speed-loaders than the revolver is worth? And I though I was bad about moonclips.

View attachment 914727
About 1/3 of my moonclips... But they are a lot cheaper than your speed-loaders.

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To be honest I only carry 10 max when competing, I was just having fun with the inventory. I have way more speed loaders than I have ammo to fill them. Those are some of the next shipment to Revolver Supply.

I also have a lot of moonclips.

DS-10-SPEED said:

To be honest I only carry 10 max when competing, I was just having fun with the inventory. I have way more speed loaders than I have ammo to fill them. Those are some of the next shipment to Revolver Supply.

I also have a lot of moonclips.

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Do you make those for Revolver Supply?

mcb said:

Do you make those for Revolver Supply?

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Yes

DS-10-SPEED said:

Yes

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Nice, they look machined rather than injection molded. Are they machined from Delrin? I assume you avatar is a cad model of the body?

DS-10-SPEED said:

I've been a revolver shooter for almost 50 years so I have more revolvers than autos. I like the autos I have but I dislike the feel of the slide action flopping back and forth and bending over to pick up brass.

With my 617's I can load, shoot and reload faster that any of my semi-autos.

View attachment 914684

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Niiiiice! That's some serious equipment there.

mcb said:

Nice, they look machined rather than injection molded. Are they machined from Delrin? I assume you avatar is a cad model of the body?

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Injection molded HDPE, I design and make the molds and mold the parts, this is my 7th design in 15 years.

My avatar is from my 5th design.

Ed Ames said:

That’s why you can’t say that an F-35 is better than a Diamond DA-40, or that either is better than a Citation X, without sounding clueless. They are all excellent when viewed through the subjective filter of their particular mission, and awful when viewed through the subjective filter of each other’s missions.

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My company would disagree. We have a fleet of 5 of those troublesome POS. Yes, they are fast, but they are constantly AOG. We are upgrading to G550s soon.

As to the OP. I prefer semi-autos. I think many revolvers are a work of art and appreciate the craftsmanship. I like shooting my Uberti Peacemaker. It's fun. I like shooting bear loads through my SBH Bisley. Less fun, but it's an experience.

But for self-defense, the semi-auto does everything better and cheaper than a similarly-sized revolver.

swagbrdr said:

Both.

Both have Pluses and minuses. Know what they are and train/shoot accordingly.

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Agreed

As far as putting a gun under your pillow? Nope. There are many options out here to properly holster/contain your weapon in the bedroom area.

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Ye gods! Ever try to sleep on a pound or two of lumpy steel?