Remington 870- Express vs. Wingmaster

I wouldn't say that it's a matter of "justification," but a matter of what the customer desires. Both guns are perfectly functional, but they serve different markets. The Express is a low-cost option intended to give people a functional gun to put in their closet, under their bed, or the behind the seat of the truck. The Wingmaster, besides the things you mentioned like forged parts and metal trigger guard, has a gloss-finished fancy walnut stock, fleur de lis checkering and even comes in engraved and gilt-inlayed special editions. It is probably the most "elegant" pump action shotgun in production today. It generally sells with long barrels for things like upland bird hunting. Most people buying it are turning down higher-priced over-unders rather than stepping up from the Express. But the barrels are interchangeable with shorter ones and it can be converted into a "combat" style gun.

The 870 Police model is built similar to the Wingmaster, but with a more utilitarian stock and foregrip. Both the Wingmaster and Police share the forged parts, metal trigger guard, and closer tolerances on the slide action. Civilians buying shotgun for something like home defense or the camp, probably don't want to spend more than for an Express. If they were willing to maybe because they thought they might shoot it a lot, maybe take it to combat shotgun classes or something, and they wanted a high-end pump-gun instead of a semi-auto, would either get a Police model or a Wingmaster and then change out the long barrel and fancy stock for a shorter one and a maybe a synthetic speedfeed stock or something. If they were going to "accessorize" it with a shellholder and weapons light, rails and all the mall ninja stuff, they will probably covet to start with Police/Wingmaster internals.

The Wingmaster has better internal finishing (for smoother operation), a better external finish, real walnut furniture, and no MIM parts that I am aware of. The Express is intended to get a good pump gun into a buyer's hands for the least amount of money. You can upgrade a few parts and sit and work the action while you watch TV and end up with a pretty slick gun in my experience. I don't know why there is such a hue and cry over a plastic trigger plate versus a cast aluminum one; to me the plastic should be tougher AND not show edge wear on the finish so easily. It's "space age polymer" on imports, but "horrible plastic" on Remingtons.
The Express gets a very bad rap from some people. In my opinion it's a lot of bitterness that you can't get a Wingmaster for an Express price. I have seen a bunch and owned one, and never saw much besides a few rough chambers years ago wrong with them. I found I could not live with the cheap looking exterior and got rid of mine, but it never hiccupped once.
It's your money and your choice.

Setting aside cosmetics precisely what parts on a Wingmaster are supposed to be more durable/reliable than on the Express models? Proven to be more reliable/durable, not just folklore.

I am not going to knock the Wingmasters. They are fine looking guns. Well finished and highly functional.

Think of it in terms of Smith and Wesson revolvers. The Wingmaster is like an older S&W revolver. Smooth as glass action and gives you a fuzzy feeling when you operate it. The express is like a currently made S&W revolver. Not bad and it does work but not nearly as smooth as the older S&W. They both have their place. For a defensive shotgun I went with a Mossberg over the Remignton for the main reason of where the safety and slide release are located.

The guts of Express has a total of one MIM part (the extractor) which it shares with the Wingmaster.

I have both, and have even used various versions of both extensively in the military. While the wingmasters are generally more attractive, I never noticed any type of difference in performance.

Less plastic in the Wing Master I had, a sweet trigger and working the action sounded like a bank vault and just as slick.
My Express had a lot of plastic parts, a grubby action and a lousy trigger.
I'd take a used Wing Master over a new Express. My 2 cents anyway.
If I needed an easily affordable HD pump I'd get a Mossberg 500. Yeah lots of plastic and aluminum, no forged steel but they work just as well and usually for less $$

Plastic parts have proven to be far more durable than aluminum. All pump guns are utilitarian, If I'm spending what they want for a Wingmaster I'll get a nice semi-auto instead. A $279 Express may need a little more breaking in, but other than the finish and stocks they are the same gun. For tough waterfowl and turkey hunting I'd rather have the Express if they were the same price.

The only thing with the current synthetic Express stocks is the molded in sling stud which is quite thin and can snap after use. Otherwise, polish the chamber area and cycle the gun to slicken and you're good to go.

Wingmaster gets the hand and quality attention that guns used to get back in the 50s, 60s, and 70s; much the same way that Griswold and Wagner cast iron got that final polishing that Lodge does not. The express often times has a rough chamber that when coupled with steel based ammo, gives you rough or stuck extractions while the Wimgmaster does not. The wood is MUCH better, the bluing is MUCH better; the fit and finish is MUCH better. Whether or not that os worth the extra cost you, is something you have to determine. It would be to me..........

The desired aluminum trigger guard of the Wingmaster and Police is made of "compressed, powdered aluminum".
That doesn't sound as good as "aluminum".
Truth is the plastic trigger guard may actually be better.
It's self lubricating, has no finish to wear off and get ratty looking, and if struck it just deforms and is usually still usable, where the aluminum guard usually just breaks.

The Express was developed so Remington could have a 870 shotgun that could at least compete with the Mossberg and other lesser cost shotguns.
That the Express is competitive is a credit to Remington for managing to make a forged steel receiver gun with heavy duty fabricated internals that is at least in the same range as the much cheaper to make cast aluminum receiver and stamped internals as the Mossberg.

The key differences between the Wingmaster a, the Police, and Express are as follows. Some of this may no longer be valid.
All 870 shotguns use the same forged steel receiver and the same heavy duty fabricated internal parts.
No internal parts in the action are plastic.

The Wingmaster...
An aluminum trigger group. (Compressed powdered aluminum)
The old style magazine retention system with the plunger in the front of the barrel support ring and a milled magazine cap with notches to engage the plunger.
A much smoother finish inside and out, no machine marks or burrs.
The Wingmaster gun receives a higher level of inspection and finishing.
A fine, commercial polished blue finish.
A polished bore.
A chrome plated bolt.
Walnut stocks with the famous "Bowling Pin" finish in gloss or satin, and better checkering.
Wide choices in barrel lengths, ribs, and choke options.
No use of MIM parts, the extractor is milled.
The Wingmaster is the full top-of-the-line commercial Remington pump gun, and is priced accordingly.

The Express....
A plastic trigger group.
Dimples in the mag tube and the new style plastic magazine retention system, EXCEPT on the extended magazine versions, which do NOT have the dimples. The plastic magazine retention engages machine raised "teeth" inside the magazine cap.
A rougher finish inside and outside, with machine marks and some burrs left.
A rougher, bead blasted blue job.
A less polished bore.
Hardwood or synthetic stock, with a sporting-length fore end and pressed-in checkering.
The Defense version has 18" Cylinder bore barrel, with a bead sight, and one model has a unique longer magazine tube. This model can only use a special barrel that won't interchange with any other 870 model.
The Marine Magnum and Tactical models have plated or polymer finishes.
Some Metal Injection Molded (MIM) parts, like the extractor.

The Police....
An aluminum trigger group.
The old style magazine retention system.
A much smoother finish inside and out, no machine marks or burrs.
The Police gun receives a higher level of inspection and finishing and is built in a special secured area of the plant from 100% inspected parts.
A military-grade parkerized finish, satin blue is available.
A polished bore.
Walnut or synthetic stock, with a short police-length fore end.
The Remington “R3” super recoil pad that reduces felt recoil by 30%.
Choices in different stocks, including Speed-feed, and others.
18" to 20" improved cylinder barrel, with a wide choice in sights, including rifle, ghost ring, and luminous.
Police options like magazine extenders, forearms with built-in lights, and sling swivels.
Heavy-duty magazine spring.
Heavy-duty trigger-sear spring.
Heavy-duty shell lifter spring.
Sling swivel mounts.
No use of MIM parts, the extractor is milled.

In short the Wingmaster is Remington's premium sporting pump gun, the Express is a budget model made as an entry level sporting or home defense gun, the Police is the top of the line American police shotgun.

I haven't looked at the guts of a Browning BPS, but would it be the same stamped internal parts as a Wingmaster? They are a little cheaper too.

The 12ga Wingmaster also comes with a LC aka light contour barrel---reducing weight by a half pound or so.

Something else to remember about older Remington 870’s.. Before the Express and Police models ever came along, the only model everyone had available was the Wingmaster, period -whether for sporting use or police/military use... In fact all of the 870 guns I was issued from 1973 to 1995 as a young (then not so young) cop were simply Wingmasters in riot configuration (four shot tube, bead sight. Improved Cylinder 18 or 20” barrel) and you couldn’t find a better weapon for close quarters work, in my opinion.

If anyone can tell me exactly when the Express and/or the Police models were brought to market I’d appreciate it.

dak0ta said:

I haven't looked at the guts of a Browning BPS, but would it be the same stamped internal parts as a Wingmaster? They are a little cheaper too.

Click to expand...

As fond as I am of the 870 Wingmaster, as near as I can tell, the Browning BPS is a better executed premium pump shotgun than the 870. Better checkering, Wood, bluing, etc.

Other than that opinion, they are constructed following a similar theme. Forged steel externals and stamped internals. I don’t know if the BPS has any MIM parts or not. I’ve shot over 5000 rounds through my 20 ga BPS and if it’s broken anything, I didn’t notice. I’m sure, many can say the same for the 870.

There has never been a chrome bore on any of them. Out of over 50 shotguns I have owned, only 4 had chrome bore(s). Did not see any difference.

"If anyone can tell me exactly when the Express and/or the Police models were brought to market I’d appreciate it."

As above the Police model in the past was nothing more then a Wingmaster with a plain uncheckered stock, short, grooved fore end, satin blued finish, and a bead sight.
Most of these were stamped with the Wingmaster name on the receiver.
Back in the 80's Remington decided to offer more Police gun options and began stamping them with the Police name on the receiver to form a new model range separate from the sporting Wingmaster.

The Express actually started as the 870 Sportsman 12 model in 1984.
This was just the Wingmaster with hardwood stock and a lesser polished blue finish.

The actual Express model was introduced in 1987.

They are both good functional shotguns. I laugh when I read the praise of the great virtues of the Wingmaster because I'm old enough to remember when they came out and all the crap that "junk shotgun" took from the Model 12 boys.

here are two remington express grade shotguns, a 1187 field in 20ga 2-3/4 and 3"and a 870 express in 20 ga 2-3/4 and 3". both have not had one problem at all and the 1187 is one of the softest kicking semi auto,s i ever owned and i have owned quite a few. and i do like remington shotguns

Not bragging. Since 1968 I've owned and shot well over a dozen 870s of about every variation including a 1951 Wingmaster, my 1975 TB, a 1975 TC, a 1985 Sportsman, several expresses and some other various Wingmasters. My main trap gun is a 1975 TB with over a quarter million rounds fired through it. Summary, Wingmaster=smooth, Express=rough. Both are strong, reliable and strong. The only thing I don't use an 870 for is deer because they don't make anything to compare to my Savage 220.

I would appreciate it if those who own/shoot Express 870s chime in with
their experience in using the cheap steel-based ammunition that floods
the market every season

- Pro ?
- Con ?


.

Mine H&R Protector, ate Wal-Mart bulk ammo like a hungry dog.