I am thinking about getting another pump 12 ga. I always wanted a wingmaster and will probably go that way. But how much difference is there between the 870 express vs. wingmaster? Is it all just cosmetic or is the wingmaster made better?
Express vs. wingmaster
- Thread starter Oldnamvet
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Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
In older Express guns, strictly cosmetic (dull beadblasted blue finish, dull fnished stained hardwood furniture instead of walnut). Mechanically they were close enough not to matter IMO.
If you plan to buy new, there are design and parts differences that make the Wingmaster a better gun IMHO. If money is no issue buy a new Wingmaster, if money is tight, look for an older (aluminum trigger plate, steel magazine spring retainer vs. plastic held in place by dimples in the magazine tube) used Express gun ($125- 195 around here). Note the differences in the magazine cap detents also, the older Express will use a steel detent and spring pressed into the barrel ring to retain the magazine cap, while newer Expresses use the teeth on the plastic magazine spring retainer to engage teeth on the inside of the magazine cap as a retainer. This makes a distinctive clack-clack-clack noise when you start to unscrew the magazine cap on a newer (and unaltered) Express gun.
Note that some folks who want to put on an extension to the magazine will press out or drill out the magazine tube dimples on newer express guns.
Shop with care if you are buying used, or get someone who knows 870s to help you look.
hth,
lpl/nc (been shooting 870s for going on 40 years and haven't bought a new one yet)
If you plan to buy new, there are design and parts differences that make the Wingmaster a better gun IMHO. If money is no issue buy a new Wingmaster, if money is tight, look for an older (aluminum trigger plate, steel magazine spring retainer vs. plastic held in place by dimples in the magazine tube) used Express gun ($125- 195 around here). Note the differences in the magazine cap detents also, the older Express will use a steel detent and spring pressed into the barrel ring to retain the magazine cap, while newer Expresses use the teeth on the plastic magazine spring retainer to engage teeth on the inside of the magazine cap as a retainer. This makes a distinctive clack-clack-clack noise when you start to unscrew the magazine cap on a newer (and unaltered) Express gun.
Note that some folks who want to put on an extension to the magazine will press out or drill out the magazine tube dimples on newer express guns.
Shop with care if you are buying used, or get someone who knows 870s to help you look.
hth,
lpl/nc (been shooting 870s for going on 40 years and haven't bought a new one yet)
357wheelgunner
Member
The new expresses are junk. Mine rusted after 2 weeks in my air conditioned closet. I sold it and got a Police version with the parkerizing instead of whatever cheap coating they use on the Express, and the Police model has been a great beater gun. I never oil it and it never rusts.
I can't say much about the Wingmaster, my other 870, a Wingmaster, was made in 1979. Just don't buy the Express.
I can't say much about the Wingmaster, my other 870, a Wingmaster, was made in 1979. Just don't buy the Express.
The Deer Hunter
Member
Express has a plastic trigger group
, they probably have it advertised as like polymer or something but still.
, they probably have it advertised as like polymer or something but still.dfariswheel
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The Remington plastic trigger group is proving to be just as strong and long lasting as the powdered aluminum trigger guards.
It's actually better since a bump that will only cause the plastic guard to flex and return to shape will bend or break the aluminum guard.
Plus there's no finish to wear off.
Here's the actual differences between the Express and Wingmaster:
The Express is Remington's "budget" gun, made to compete with the cheaper to make Winchester and Mossberg guns.
The Wingmaster is Remington's "Cadillac" top-of-the-line sporting gun.
How Remington lowered the Express price was to reduce hand labor to a bare minimum, and to eliminate much of the polishing and de-burring the better quality Wingmaster gets.
The Express is basically the same forged and milled steel receiver and heavy-duty internals gun the better 870's are, just in a rougher, less well finished form with plastic and MIM parts.
The Express Model has:
A plastic trigger group.
The dimples in the mag tube and the new style plastic magazine retention system, EXCEPT on the extended magazine version, which does NOT have the dimples.
A rougher finish inside and outside, with machine marks and some burrs left.
A rougher, bead blasted blue job.
A less polished bore.
A two piece barrel. (not 100% sure about this, but it looks like the extension is one piece and the actual barrel is another)
Hardwood or synthetic stock, with a sporting-length fore end and pressed-in checkering.
The Defense version has 18", Cylinder bore barrel, with a bead sight.
Some Metal Injection Molded (MIM) parts, like the extractor.
Has the locking safety button.
The Wingmaster has:
An aluminum trigger group.
The old style magazine retention system.
A much smoother finish inside and out, no machine marks or burrs.
The Wingmaster gun receives a higher level of inspection and finishing.
A fine, commercial polished blue finish.
A polished bore.
A chrome plated bolt.
A one piece barrel.
Walnut stocks with the famous "Bowling Pin" finish in gloss or satin. and better checkering.
Wide choices in barrel lengths and choke options.
No use of MIM parts, the extractor is milled.
The Wingmaster is the full top-of-the-line commercial Remington pump gun, and is priced accordingly.
The Express is a "bottom of the line" budget gun, the Wingmaster is a "top of the line" Cadillac sporting gun.
The 870's are generally considered to be the finest quality pump gun made.
It's actually better since a bump that will only cause the plastic guard to flex and return to shape will bend or break the aluminum guard.
Plus there's no finish to wear off.
Here's the actual differences between the Express and Wingmaster:
The Express is Remington's "budget" gun, made to compete with the cheaper to make Winchester and Mossberg guns.
The Wingmaster is Remington's "Cadillac" top-of-the-line sporting gun.
How Remington lowered the Express price was to reduce hand labor to a bare minimum, and to eliminate much of the polishing and de-burring the better quality Wingmaster gets.
The Express is basically the same forged and milled steel receiver and heavy-duty internals gun the better 870's are, just in a rougher, less well finished form with plastic and MIM parts.
The Express Model has:
A plastic trigger group.
The dimples in the mag tube and the new style plastic magazine retention system, EXCEPT on the extended magazine version, which does NOT have the dimples.
A rougher finish inside and outside, with machine marks and some burrs left.
A rougher, bead blasted blue job.
A less polished bore.
A two piece barrel. (not 100% sure about this, but it looks like the extension is one piece and the actual barrel is another)
Hardwood or synthetic stock, with a sporting-length fore end and pressed-in checkering.
The Defense version has 18", Cylinder bore barrel, with a bead sight.
Some Metal Injection Molded (MIM) parts, like the extractor.
Has the locking safety button.
The Wingmaster has:
An aluminum trigger group.
The old style magazine retention system.
A much smoother finish inside and out, no machine marks or burrs.
The Wingmaster gun receives a higher level of inspection and finishing.
A fine, commercial polished blue finish.
A polished bore.
A chrome plated bolt.
A one piece barrel.
Walnut stocks with the famous "Bowling Pin" finish in gloss or satin. and better checkering.
Wide choices in barrel lengths and choke options.
No use of MIM parts, the extractor is milled.
The Wingmaster is the full top-of-the-line commercial Remington pump gun, and is priced accordingly.
The Express is a "bottom of the line" budget gun, the Wingmaster is a "top of the line" Cadillac sporting gun.
The 870's are generally considered to be the finest quality pump gun made.
The Deer Hunter
Member
It may be the luxury model but its still as versatile as an express
mswestfall
Member
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- Mar 9, 2006
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- 437
Gosh dfarriswheel you make me wish I bought the Wingmaster I had in my hands today!
This one had a Monty Carlo (sp?) stock. It fit well except for the length of pull.
Can you tell me why they only make a 20" rifled, iron sited bbl?
This one had a Monty Carlo (sp?) stock. It fit well except for the length of pull.
Can you tell me why they only make a 20" rifled, iron sited bbl?
dfariswheel
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- 6,656
Most rifled barrels are for deer shooters, and since there's no ballistic advantage to a longer barrel, they probably figured 20" was about right.
I'd swear my dad's 60's vintage Wingmaster has a steel trigger group.
It also has a chromed follower in the magazine.
My "Sportsman 12" magnum has the aluminum trigger group (it's a cut rate blued model 870 made before the express), dad's express model was purchased a few years later for turkey hunting, its trigger group was still aluminum.
Both lower grades have 'rustic' looking bolt carriers compared to the Wingmaster, and the bolt on the Wingmaster is chromed.
A Wingmaster not only has nice wood, the fore-end and stock usually match and the checkering was done with care.
All three models can swap barrels and probably all internals.
We haven't rusted any of them.
Dad's Wingmaster shipped with a 30 inch full choke barrel, but for some reason is currently in the safe with 21 inch deer barrel on it.
It also has a chromed follower in the magazine.
My "Sportsman 12" magnum has the aluminum trigger group (it's a cut rate blued model 870 made before the express), dad's express model was purchased a few years later for turkey hunting, its trigger group was still aluminum.
Both lower grades have 'rustic' looking bolt carriers compared to the Wingmaster, and the bolt on the Wingmaster is chromed.
A Wingmaster not only has nice wood, the fore-end and stock usually match and the checkering was done with care.
All three models can swap barrels and probably all internals.
We haven't rusted any of them.
Dad's Wingmaster shipped with a 30 inch full choke barrel, but for some reason is currently in the safe with 21 inch deer barrel on it.
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
mswestfall,
There are 20" smoothbore 870 barrels with iron sights as well, some were even factory fitted for RemChokes, others (older ones) that are fixed CYL bore, newer ones are fixed ImpCyl. And some Police guns come with 18" smoothbore rifle sighted barrels as well, occasionally those barrels turn up for sale.
You can find almost any barrel you want for an 870, otherwise there are any number of barrel shops out there that can pretty much make it up for you by altering an existing barrel.
hth,
lpl/nc
There are 20" smoothbore 870 barrels with iron sights as well, some were even factory fitted for RemChokes, others (older ones) that are fixed CYL bore, newer ones are fixed ImpCyl. And some Police guns come with 18" smoothbore rifle sighted barrels as well, occasionally those barrels turn up for sale.
You can find almost any barrel you want for an 870, otherwise there are any number of barrel shops out there that can pretty much make it up for you by altering an existing barrel.
hth,
lpl/nc
Remington does a poor job of removing chemicals from some of their guns.
Rub the thing down thoroughly with Bullfrog or CLP when you buy it, and wipe it down after you sweat on it, and it will be fine.
Parkerized is better, as always, but you don't have to sell an Express, just clean off the surface.
HornsKeith
Member
Having shopped both recently, you should be able to pick up an Express in the $250 range (maybe even less with a good deal and the current $30 rebate) and a Wingmaster around $499.
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