Would you do this deal if it was your rifle for sale?

It would be a nope from me. The only way I would consider even talking to the guy is if he's local and would meet you, provide ID to prove his claim of becoming legal in a month and is willing to show you (not give you) every cent of the asking price in cash to prove he's got it. Don't accept any money until you can legally transfer the rifle. But all that adds up to not being worth the trouble. I don't know the laws of your state, if a permit is required for a 21 year old to buy a long gun it sounds like a sale riddled with pitfalls.
I'd just sell it to the first guy who has the money and can legally purchase.

Even if he "turns 21 in a month", Massachusetts doesn't automatically issue a firearms license then, and he can't apply for it until then. So, it will be more than a month before he is legally permitted to take possession of the gun.

Still, the law may allow him to "own" the gun without being in possession of it (Federal law does.) So, if I could verify that he was sending legitimate payment for the rifle in full, along with a nominal storage fee for me to keep it in my safe until he can lawfully possess it, I'd consider the deal. If he had to renege on the deal, then I'd consider refunding him most, if not all, of what he paid for the gun, minus the storage fee we had agreed upon. Those details would have to be worked out beforehand, of course.

lsudave said:

We're just talking a semi-auto rifle with a detachable magazine. What states require a license for that?-- Yick, I just looked it up, it appears there are a few.

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If the “kid” were simply waiting it out till his birthday, he’d have to be living in either Florida or Washington as these are the only 2 States requiring a purchaser of long arms to be 21.

Ed Ames said:

I don’t see any special reason to believe it’s a scam. Yes it has an appeal to greed (the extra hundred) just as many scams do, but there is a non-scam reason.

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The “non-scam” reason relates to age requirements for owning a rifle, I covered that above, and needing a “license” to purchase it. 3 States require a license, New York (handguns only), Illinois, and Massachusetts. Illinois has their Firearm Owners Identification card (FOID) and none of these 3 requires the purchaser of long guns to be 21.

That means that either this is a scam or the “kid” is ignorant of the law. The “smacks of scam” offer for additional money has been tossed my way many a time on Craigslist regarding nearly every item I ever listed. “I am from Alabama and we don’t see nice boats like yours down here. I’d be willing to offer you an additional $500 plus expenses to ship it to me”. Ditto for $300 bicycles. If someone gives a proper introduction with full name and phone number, a valid address and number for a proposed FFL, and isn’t asking me to do something illegal, then yes I’ll happily take the money, but again, transferring money for the rifle ahead of that time (and again to a State that doesn’t exist) is asking for trouble.

It is a scam that I have seen several times.

He may offer you a cashier's check. If so, it is fake. It's only of value if it is printed on soft, absorbent paper.

The idea is that you deposit the check, ship the item, and then find out that the check has bounced.

I recently posted a ham transceiver for sale and had two extremely similar inquiries in the first 15 minutes.

Skylerbone said:

If the “kid” were simply waiting it out till his birthday, he’d have to be living in either Florida or Washington as these are the only 2 States requiring a purchaser of long arms to be 21.

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That’s no longer correct.

There are 5 states that impose a minimum age of 21 for long guns. 3 of those also have some kind of licensing requirement.

The “non-scam” reason relates to age requirements for owning a rifle, I covered that above, and needing a “license” to purchase it. 3 States require a license, New York (handguns only), Illinois, and Massachusetts. Illinois has their Firearm Owners Identification card (FOID) and none of these 3 requires the purchaser of long guns to be 21.

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That’s also incorrect. 7 states require a license to purchase a long gun, and three of those require a long gun purchaser to be 21 or over. One of those states is California where the PTR-91 would not be legal unless reworked by a company that offers CA-conversion services so we’ll provisionally rule that out (it’s not impossible for that to be done legally, but it’s harder). So the prospective buyer could be in Illinois or Hawaii.

Buy/sell sites of all kinds are rife with scams on both sides of the deal. However, with the information presented there is no indication that there is a scam that can’t be avoided using the most basic precaution (requiring payment up front, ideally in a form that won’t cost you bank fees if it bounces - and wait for it to clear before shipping) one should always insist on in these deals.

And, to be clear, I would reply with exactly what I suggested in my first post: “I’m unwilling to take it off the market, come back when you can actually buy it...”

Rockrivr1 said:

I have a JDL Enterprises, Inc. PTR-91 for sale on Armslist and I got an email on it from a guy wanting to buy it. He states:



I can't figure out if this is legit or if it's a scam of some type. Though if he give me the cash up front I'm not sure how that would work if it was a scam. The only down side from my end would be if he didn't get his license, which I'm not all that worried about.

Would you do this deal? If not, why not?

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You really asking, or is this rhetorical?

No money/no sale. Have a ligit person send me cash and you can have anything I own.
No returns on the old lady.

Ed Ames said:

So the prospective buyer could be in Illinois or Hawaii.

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Illinois is 18 for rifles, FOID card required.

Obturation said:

Illinois is 18 for rifles, FOID card required.

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Since you can’t get a FOID until you are 21 (without parents’ permission, which may not be forthcoming for everyone who would want to buy a rifle), the general minimum age to buy a rifle in Illinois is 21.

Rockrivr1 said:

I have a JDL Enterprises, Inc. PTR-91 for sale on Armslist and I got an email on it from a guy wanting to buy it. He states:



I can't figure out if this is legit or if it's a scam of some type. Though if he give me the cash up front I'm not sure how that would work if it was a scam. The only down side from my end would be if he didn't get his license, which I'm not all that worried about.

Would you do this deal? If not, why not?

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Why would you even read that twice if you are asking a fair price for the gun?

Ed Ames said:

Since you can’t get a FOID until you are 21 (without parents’ permission, which may not be forthcoming for everyone who would want to buy a rifle), the general minimum age to buy a rifle in Illinois is 21.

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A valid point. Tricksters. Oh Illinois , I like it less every day...

SCAM! That is all.

$ talks BS walks

"Can you hold a rifle for me for a month" sounds innocuous enough. I wouldn't do it if it was an auction or it was a listing people were beating down my door for, but the request itself doesn't sound crazy.

"License to buy a rifle at 21" sounds fishy though, and the would-be buyer better have a good explanation for that. I wouldn't let it go unchallenged, and would walk unless he had a solid explanation. Heck, if it's something I expect to sell quickly (and semi-auto rifles are a hot commodity these days...), I just wouldn't bother with the risk.

Ed Ames said:

Since you can’t get a FOID until you are 21 (without parents’ permission, which may not be forthcoming for everyone who would want to buy a rifle), the general minimum age to buy a rifle in Illinois is 21.

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Illinois law states Guardian or Sponsor so that leaves: a boy from Illinois with no 21 year old friends who are also eligible for an FOID, a boy from California with a whole lot of cash to throw around, a boy from Hawaii, a fully grown man from Nigeria, or a Federal Agent.

I’m not entertaining any hope of legitimacy here and wouldn’t raise that razor slim possibility to others who inquire. I do stand corrected on number of States requiring licensing and I understand your initial (and current) response avoids a sale to anyone who is not currently positioned to buy.

Forget Nigerian scammers. Worry about that bloody Maura Healy running sting operations to try and entrap decent people instead of prosecuting criminals.

Skylerbone said:

Illinois law states Guardian or Sponsor so that leaves: a boy from Illinois with no 21 year old friends who are also eligible for an FOID,

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I hate to keep being all persnickety, but: Illinois requires a parent or guardian sponsor for people under 21. Not a Parent, guardian, or sponsor, but a sponsor who is either a parent or guardian.

So...it can’t be just anyone over 21 with a FOID. It has to be someone who had a specific legal relationship with the applicant. A legal relationship that isn’t generally relevant to anyone over 18. I wonder if a person whose parents die after their 18th birthday has any legal path to a FOID before they hit 21. If you are over 18 and otherwise competent is a court going to be willing to appoint a guardian? I wouldn’t think so but who knows.

a boy from California with a whole lot of cash to throw around, a boy from Hawaii, a fully grown man from Nigeria, or a Federal Agent.

I’m not entertaining any hope of legitimacy here and wouldn’t raise that razor slim possibility to others who inquire. I do stand corrected on number of States requiring licensing and I understand your initial (and current) response avoids a sale to anyone who is not currently positioned to buy.

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Yeah, I see where you are coming from. To me you don’t need to waste time sniffing for a scam in this particular case because you need to take steps to prevent being scammed in all cases. I’d even argue that looking for scams up front could give you a false sense of security when faced with a more sophisticated scammer. Just do everything you can to keep from getting burned in every deal. The scammers will reveal themselves when they drop out when they realize they can’t scam you.

Mosin Bubba said:

Heck, if it's something I expect to sell quickly (and semi-auto rifles are a hot commodity these days...), I just wouldn't bother with the risk.

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I can see this point.

But also, I can see this being the reason why it might be legit... this person might be looking for a rifle, and anticipating it will be hard to line one up right now. I've done some online searches, and there ain't a lot out there at the moment. I'm searching for opportunity, not necessity, so I'm not eager to go over a certain point.

I'm glancing at the AR market right now; the big local store has a few, nothing under 1k. Took me quite awhile to find something online at even the $600 point, and that seems like it was about $150 overpriced compared to earlier price ranges. If I had to have an AR, I'd be in trouble.

If someone is looking at the .308/7.62 market, the PTR-91 seems to be the standard 'good to go' model for value. Higher recommendations than my C308, plenty of cheap magazines available, eats steel cased ammo, and way under the price of a real HK etc.

I ordered both,my first long gun,which was an 1100 Remington and then subsequently the first handgun #41 Smith.....

Before the required age,at an LGS. In both cases,turning 18.... then 21,the dealer was VERY happy to do it. This was a simple matter of a down payment and showing my DL for age proof. Went and got both within days of turning age. Just fond memories of pre internet,face to face gun buying.

Still have the 1100,it's a mint 410.... I was heck after small game hunting. Sold the #41,for a R700V 6mm which is also still here and minty. No regrets.

Lots of legal advice and conspiracy theory; it is money for a thing. You are selling a rifle, first wanton buyer providing the purchase price wins ownership - you owe this buyer nothing - - all of the other speculation is academic.

I know first hand of several entirely legit similar inquiries ...heck, when I was much younger I offered a similar deal myself....that aside, for cash casual transactions: First cash on the barrel head in person. Honest, fair to all parties.

Put something up for sale on Craigslist with no disclaimers and count the "offers" that come in just like the one you got. All have a sob story, all have a bonus for you, none can come in person, etc. If people put as much effort into working for a living as they do trying to scam others crime would plummet. Run, don't walk away from this one.

Highland Lofts said:

Have a ligit person send me cash and you can have anything I own. No returns on the old lady.

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IF, I'm going to pay for a woman, it's going to be RENT, I don't need ownership!!!

DM

I'm with you there on the rentals.

This reminds me of the nonsense I ran into when I was buying and selling car audio stuff back in the day. Besides and out and out scam, which is possible, it's usually little Timmy, too short on cash because he blew it on something else, waiting until he gets his next allowance (or paycheck.) Very often, they forget about it, or something better comes along and, well, he's not out anything if he forgets about you, or you get the dreaded 'I have half now, and I'll pay you half next week!' nonsense.

Further, you only have to be 21 to buy a handgun... not a rifle... or am I missing something?

I would not take any sort of down payment, or pay to hold or anything.