10+ round tube mag centerfire rifle

I saw the discussion.

But I can tell you have seen many references to the quote being about the Henry rifle, not the Spencer.

See what Phil Spangenberger had to say about it in this issue of True West Magazine. He mentions it in the 7th paragraph.

https://truewestmagazine.com/the-yankee-sixteen-shooter/

Think about it for a moment. The Spencer had a 7 round magazine and the hammer had to be cocked separately for each shot. The Henry held 15 in the magazine and the hammer was automatically cocked each time the lever was worked. Which one could put out a more blistering rate of fire? That is what the quote is talking about, nothing to do with firing one shot for every day of the week.

Just because Winchester did not procure any Army contracts for the Henry does not mean that individual units did not purchase them with their own funds. I count five Henry rifles in this photo of the color guard of the 7th Illinois Infantry. These are some of the Henry rifles used at Allatoona, Georgia in October of 1864 that allowed a small Union force drive back a much larger force of Confederates.






Here is a contemporary advertising circular for the Henry rifle,






In the book The Historic Henry Rifle, by Wiley Sword, he describes quite a few Union outfits that purchased Henry rifles with their own funds. Too many for me to list here. Many times a smaller Union force was able to drive back a larger Confederate force because of the rapid fire power of the Henry rifle.

Driftwood Johnson said:

I saw the discussion.

But I can tell you have seen many references to the quote being about the Henry rifle, not the Spencer.

See what Phil Spangenberger had to say about it in this issue of True West Magazine. He mentions it in the 7th paragraph.

https://truewestmagazine.com/the-yankee-sixteen-shooter/

Think about it for a moment. The Spencer had a 7 round magazine and the hammer had to be cocked separately for each shot. The Henry held 15 in the magazine and the hammer was automatically cocked each time the lever was worked. Which one could put out a more blistering rate of fire? That is what the quote is talking about, nothing to do with firing one shot for every day of the week.

Just because Winchester did not procure any Army contracts for the Henry does not mean that individual units did not purchase them with their own funds. I count five Henry rifles in this photo of the color guard of the 7th Illinois Infantry. These are some of the Henry rifles used at Allatoona, Georgia in October of 1864 that allowed a small Union force drive back a much larger force of Confederates.

View attachment 959659




Here is a contemporary advertising circular for the Henry rifle,

View attachment 959660




In the book The Historic Henry Rifle, by Wiley Sword, he describes quite a few Union outfits that purchased Henry rifles with their own funds. Too many for me to list here. Many times a smaller Union force was able to drive back a larger Confederate force because of the rapid fire power of the Henry rifle.

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You can quote any reference you like, but the only ones that are relevant is the fact that the Spencer is the rifle that held 7 shots, as in “load on Sunday and shoot all week” and that the Spencer, of which three times more were produced than the Henry, saw much wider use in the war and in much more significant engagements. Those are facts.

I give up.

Forget the fact that I have seen that quote attributed to the Henry for years, you must be right.

Driftwood Johnson said:

I give up.

Forget the fact that I have seen that quote attributed to the Henry for years, you must be right.

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Glad to be of assistance.

Yes, but you can shoot the Henry twice a day. And I have also heard the remark attributed to the Henry for some decades.
The saying might have gotten around and been applied to either repeater.

"A resolute man armed with one of these rifles, particularly if on horseback, CANNOT BE CAPTURED."
My favorite piece of firearms advertising.

Jim Watson said:

The saying might have gotten around and been applied to either repeater.

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This. And until someone can put forward something better than just a conclusion based off numbers of Spencer's, then it belongs to the Henry. Because for now, all of history says it does.

Marlin 1888 .38 wcf 16
'92s in .357/44mag- 10
1894 in 45-10
1894 in .30-30-10
Found a Marlin 336 .30-30-16
Still other models out there but this paints the picture

Driftwood Johnson said:

I give up.

Forget the fact that I have seen that quote attributed to the Henry for years, you must be right.

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You are correct. That saying has always been a reference to the Henry rifle. The other poster seems fixated on the fact the Spencer held the "correct" amount of rounds.

This was written in 1865, the book was Major General William T. Sherman, and his Campaigns by Rev. F. Senour.

Mn Fats said:

This. And until someone can put forward something better than just a conclusion based off numbers of Spencer's, then it belongs to the Henry. Because for now, all of history says it does.

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The saying was not “that darned Yankee rifle that you load on Sunday and shoot twice a day all week and three times on Wednesday”, was it? The “load on Sunday and shoot all week” clearly refers to the seven shot Spencer.

You can claim it for the bloody AK47, but it still won’t be right.

DocRock said:

The Lebel almost sort of did (explained above), but given that the thirty-thirty is about the shortest rifle cartridge that would have been around contemporaneously with the age of the tubular magazine, and I don't know if a rifle that fit 10, I don't think any of the lever guns could do 10 rifle cartridge in a mag.

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The 44 WCF (44-40), 38 WCF (38-40), 32 WCF (32-20) were all introduced by Winchester as rifle rounds although they are categorized as pistol calibers because of their size & power. It was only natural for handguns to be chambered in the same rounds as companion pieces to the Winchester rifles.

DocRock said:

It was the Spencer rifle which was widely used by the Union Army (48,000 made), unlike the Henry of which only 14,000 in total were ever made and which was only used by a small number of Union units. As DJ notes above, the Henry only began production in 1862 and was never officially adopted by the Union Army, unlike the Spencer. It saw very limited use in Union service, whereas, for example Union General Wilson maneuvered 9,000 men armed with Spencers at Gettysburg.

While the “load on Sunday and shoot all week” line has been ascribed to the Henry (probably by the unrelated modern Henry Arms), the sheer difference in numbers used and actual engagements with Confederates, the remark (if genuine) was about the Spencer.

http://www.aotc.net/Spencer.htm

https://military.wikia.org/wiki/Henry_rifle

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Although the Spencer was officially adopted and was fielded in greater numbers, it was the Henry that made the greatest impact on the hearts minds of the soldiers on both sides of the war. It held more cartridges and offered a greater rate of fire than any other infantry rifle or handgun. I would venture to say that the only weapon on the battlefield with a greater rate of fire than the Henry was the Gatling Gun.

As to which rifle was described as "load on Sunday and shoot all week, the Spencer link provided above has this to say about the Henry-

Described later by one Confederate as "that tarnation Yankee rifle they load on Sunday and shoot all week," the Henry carried 15 rounds in its magazine under the barrel.

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I grew up with that quote being attributed to the Henry rifle decades before Henry Repeating Arms was founded in 1996.

MistWolf said:

I grew up with that quote being attributed to the Henry rifle decades before Henry Repeating Arms was founded in 1996.

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Terribly sorry to crush another childhood illusion. By the way, while we are at it, George Washington and the Cherry tree? Also not true. And, as for Santa Claus...

Goosey said:

You are correct. That saying has always been a reference to the Henry rifle. The other poster seems fixated on the fact the Spencer held the "correct" amount of rounds.

This was written in 1865, the book was Major General William T. Sherman, and his Campaigns by Rev. F. Senour.

View attachment 960565

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This is the actual quote regardless of and opinion based on nothing but speculation. Henry is correct.

d2wing said:

This is the actual quote regardless of and opinion based on nothing but speculation. Henry is correct.

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I know Goebbels said if you tell a lie often enough, it becomes the truth. But you can't. The quote is about the seven days in the week and the seven rounds in a Spencer.

. The original quote is above. Now if you have an original source for your version please show us. We all know there isn't any but time to put up.

There is no “original quote”. There are numerous quotes, attributed to numerous people, including the anonymous Confederate soldier. But only one of the two rifles has a magazine that held the same number of rounds as days in a week.

It seems quite strange that you are so butt-hurt about this.

DocRock said:

It seems quite strange that you are so butt-hurt about this.

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I dont think anyone is hurt. Nothing wrong with people chiming in with facts. Something wrong with a lone poster changing terms of history and placing them where he sees fit because it makes more sense to said poster. Without published facts, like others have posted, this goes back to a man's personal theory.

Mn Fats said:

I dont think anyone is hurt. Nothing wrong with people chiming in with facts. Something wrong with a lone poster changing terms of history and placing them where he sees fit because it makes more sense to said poster. Without published facts, like others have posted, this goes back to a man's personal theory.

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There's no theory. I posted the facts that support the plain and simple truth. The reference to the gun that loads on Sunday and shoots all week is a reference to the seven shot Spencer, not the fifteen shot Henry. It isn't particularly clever, hard to understand, or very complicated. And clearly, when faced with the simple fact and the clear reference, the on-going denial is inexplicable, albeit amusing.

DocRock said:

There's no theory. I posted the facts that support the plain and simple truth. The reference to the gun that loads on Sunday and shoots all week is a reference to the seven shot Spencer, not the fifteen shot Henry. It isn't particularly clever, hard to understand, or very complicated. And clearly, when faced with the simple fact and the clear reference, the on-going denial is inexplicable, albeit amusing.

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Nope, not hard to understand at all. But your taking the saying way too literally in my opinion. Fire all week- ok so seven rounds, one for each day. Who in thier right mind, these were soldiers, believed that you only fired off one round per day? Your taking liberties there. Period.

List something in text from history that backs your Spencer theory instead of being condescending. Cause so far anyway, your alone. And I hope this doesn't get shut down because misinformation is being spread to future readers.

Mn Fats said:

Nope, not hard to understand at all. But your taking the saying way too literally in my opinion. Fire all week- ok so seven rounds, one for each day. Who in thier right mind, these were soldiers, believed that you only fired off one round per day? Your taking liberties there. Period.

List something in text from history that backs your Spencer theory instead of being condescending. Cause so far anyway, your alone. And I hope this doesn't get shut down because misinformation is being spread to future readers.

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Why so butt-hurt? It's quite bizarre. The case has been clearly made as to numbers and engagements and the saying is clearly linked to the days in the week; otherwise it would have been "the rifle you load on Sunday, shoot twice a day all week and three times in Wednesday".

You can believe the quote was about the M1 Garand for all I care, but you can't back up your ill-founded, unsupported claim that it was about the Henry other than with "I always heard" and references to apocryphal characters, while we can clearly document alleged "quotes" from numerous sources referencing both rifles. I have listed the facts from history that make it clear the alleged quote was about the Spencer. The Spencer was officially adopted by the Union, much more widely issued and used,and was used to greater effect in a number of battles. And it had a seven round magazine corresponding to the alleged Confederate quote. It's obvious. The Henry was a private purchase rifle, whose total production was less than a third the number Spencers, and was historically significant in only one relatively small dust up when used by a group smaller than platoon size. As to why having your little Henry dream shattered has caused you to act so irrationally? That I cannot grasp.

DocRock said:

Why so butt-hurt? It's quite bizarre. The case has been clearly made as to numbers and engagements and the saying is clearly linked to the days in the week; otherwise it would have been "the rifle you load on Sunday, shoot twice a day all week and three times in Wednesday".

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The facts are these:

1. forms of this quip have been printed in reference to the Henry rifle specifically since the mid 1860s.

2. you have a theory this saying must have been in reference to the Spencer, because this was a more common weapon and it held one round for each day of the week. And according to this theory the authors who recorded the phrase must have attributed the Confederate's quotes to the wrong rifle. Some of those authors were pretty specific though.

Of course it's possible you are right and it was a big mix up from the beginning. But today and ever since the books first recording it were published in the 1860s, this saying is associated with the Henry rifle. And your theory remains just that.

Goosey said:

The facts are these:

1. forms of this quip have been printed in reference to the Henry rifle specifically since the mid 1860s.

2. you have a theory this saying must have been in reference to the Spencer, because this was a more common weapon and it held one round for each day of the week. And according to this theory the authors who recorded the phrase must have attributed the Confederate's quotes to the wrong rifle. Some of those authors were pretty specific though.

Of course it's possible you are right and it was a big mix up from the beginning. But today and ever since the books first recording it were published in the 1860s, this saying is associated with the Henry rifle. And your theory remains just that.

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Except for the fact that it has also been made in reference to the Spencer. If it had only been made about the Henry, all the facts still point to the attribution being wrong, but you are hanging your argument in the quote. The quote has been used about both rifles and attributed to a number of different characters. It is unreliable.

DocRock said:

Why so butt-hurt? It's quite bizarre.

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Again, no one is hurt. Your the only one hurt, apparently it's specific to rear ends for you. Pass on your hang up with that.

Just published, historical facts vs one man, and one man alone's thoughts on the subject. Doc, put forward something, anything published that supports you.

Otherwise it will always remain just your opinion.

DocRock said:

Except for the fact that it has also been made in reference to the Spencer.

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Where ever?

Mn Fats said:

Where ever?

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If you can't or won't read, don't reply.