AJC1
Member
Rumor is that when you shoot one type of bullet vs another a deep cleaning is required. Educate me. I'm willing to test theories.
This is similar to my experience.Historically it has been accepted that if you want to follow jacketed with cast .....a very thorough cleaning is needed. The thought is, jacketed bullets will leave fouling in the bore which negatively affects the accuracy of the cast bullets. I believe this to be true.however, if you have a very “slick” barrel with minimal tooling marks (roughness) .....I don’t believe it’s as critical. For example, I have a “match grade” barrel on my .375 AI, and it shoots cast very well behind copper bullets! Also.....there are no obvious lead deposits in the bore when following jacketed bullets.
This was also an issue with the early Barnes X bullet, which was pure or nearly pure copper. They were “VERY” sensitive to a rough bore. They “did not” like to follow typical “gilding alloy” jacketed bullet, and consequently left a lot of fouling and had poor accuracy. I have hand lapped rifle bores, and substantially improved the accuracy and reduced the fouling characteristics of the original Barnes. The newer, “grooved” (TSX,TTSX,LRX) Barnes’ are much improved regarding fouling and accuracy.
As I’m now going to powder coated cast bullets, they may be more forgiving than typical “lubed” cast bullets, when following jacketed bullets. I haven’t done enough shooting the powder coated bullets to give a “reasonable” guess!
As I shoot cast in numerous cartridges, and only use Barnes in our hunting rifles, I now lap/polish the bores of every firearm we have.....with the exception of handguns which will be used “only” for close-up work! I think that the additional effort spent on rifle and longer range handgun barrels is time well spent! memtb
Bullet lube is one of the things that may be a factor in these observations. From molly to homemade bullet lubed, I believe there is an impact of these lubricants but I dont know their level of performance impact.There was a recent discussion about this on the CBA website. I "think" the final synopsis was that a little copper fouling(define little?) showed a slight increase in accuracy with cast.
Most folks still subscribe to not mixing. Which to be fair,is the "safe" way. But there's such a broad spectrum of shooting cast,much moreso than JB's. "Most" jacketed shooting is looking for some serious,within that chambering,velocity.
I shoot cast exclusively out of rifles... period. And it's a rare rig here that isn't slinging them at starting JB speeds. Just don't mess around with light loads. Also don't powder coat. For me,I want to KNOW what the rig is able to produce coming off a "deep clean". That is,JB paste... scrub down to the bare metal. There's reasons for this from a varmint hunting,cold bore... no foulers allowed,standpoint. Not to be confused with competition where fouled barrels and practice shots are the order.
So,long way around to say I prefer a spotlessly clean barrel. I shoot typically slow for cartridge powders which leave just enough carbon to act as lube. Because there sure as heck ain't any to speak of on most of the cast bullets I shoot. They get the tiniest bit just above the GC... and that ain't much! Cleaning between 20-40 shots. But that's as much to do with keeping carbon rings in check at these speeds. There is no leading in the conventional sense. Occasionally a little antimony "wash" on some of the stupid fast stuff... but these are knocking on the door of 3k fps. And is as much a function of certain neck clearance/jam specs as it is alloy or pressure. As well as case shape.
Deep rabbit hole. I personally use a Case backhoe... and am very prideful to say we can durn near drive a semi in the tunnel I've dug on the subject. And ain't done yet.
Bullet lube is one of the things that may be a factor in these observations. From molly to homemade bullet lubed, I believe there is an impact of these lubricants but I dont know their level of performance impact.
Intresting your observation is about exactly opposite of the process used in BP shooting. I guess the real reason I love reloading so much is the puzzles it provides. I never expect more information than allows me to create a test to verify my own conclusions. Honestly reloading is just a giant experiment we try and refine continuously. I am currently shooting traditional lubed bullets because that's what my dad had. The ones I cast are all powdercoated.Well,remember what I wrote about cast represents a much larger spectrum or base;
Next guy comes along and does "his thing" completely different. It's a high skill endeavor,as such... changing one tiny,seemingly insignificant process or component,can have dramatically different results.
In my experience,starting back in the mid 1970's,lube is "one" of the least important aspects. And as the speeds(and pressure,although not mutually exclusive)go up,your getting more bang for the buck on the amounts. You don't see it nearly as much in sedate(relative) handgun speeds.
In handguns,because of the slower,longer barrel time.... lube problems and nuisances actually show up.
In jacked up,let's say 22-250's,cast rigs.... the pressures here turn whatever lube there is into a vapor,and BLOWS it out the end of the barrel,IMO..well ahead of the bullet. In effect,you're grossly overlubing. I first saw it with a 30-06. Shooting a starting book load of 4350,and a conventionally lubed Lyman 175. After the second shot,I was noticing lube running out of the muzzle,haha.
Again,handguns=lower speed=lube quality.
Rifles at 2500+ = less is more.
And yes,I've tried "no lube". The problem with that is it's fine for say 5 shots but,after that it doesn't work so good,hard to explain. There's a football field amount of latitude here,something that newbs sorta don't want to hear. They want solid numbers/advice and it just isn't that easy with cast. You have to put in the time,find a game plan that YOU can live with. I use 3-1 BW-vaselatum(base vaseline sold to distributors to rebadge).
And have even found that on certain rigs; a complete emulsion isn't as effective as making it LESS,incorporated. I make a 50/50 then,"fold in" more BW. Think "crunchy" peanut butter vs smooth. It's a timed release. This is also one of the reasons I started knurling bullets. Heck,they've been knurling 22's for over a 100 years.... wonder why? Part of that is lube retention.
Intresting your observation is about exactly opposite of the process used in BP shooting. I guess the real reason I love reloading so much is the puzzles it provides. I never expect more information than allows me to create a test to verify my own conclusions. Honestly reloading is just a giant experiment we try and refine continuously. I am currently shooting traditional lubed bullets because that's what my dad had. The ones I cast are all powdercoated.
I started powder coating because my favorite revolver leaded badly with all tumble and conventionally lubed bullets and I could not fix the problem. Use powder coated and the problem is fixed. Although powder coating can be a bit tedious, I continue to do it for all handgun loads because it is less messy. I can't tell if there is any difference in accuracy.
I started powder coating because my favorite revolver leaded badly with all tumble and conventionally lubed bullets and I could not fix the problem. Use powder coated and the problem is fixed. Although powder coating can be a bit tedious, I continue to do it for all handgun loads because it is less messy. I can't tell if there is any difference in accuracy.