Ruger SR1911 & Unsupported Chamber

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Rock185 said:
I've not used .45 Super, but the barrels in the photos appear adequately supported, In loading .45 ACP, to what would now probably be considered +P; never an issue in standard unramped .45 ACP barrels. A few years ago, I was one of the department armorers. The ramped .45 ACP Glock barrels I saw were throated so much from the factory, that I wondered how they could be safe. Much more unsupported brass hanging out over the feed ramp than any factory 1911 I encountered. Coincidentally, during training one night, one of the guy's new Glock 21s KA-BOOMED.

With the higher pressure cartridges, e.g., 9mm, .38 Super/Super Comp/9X23, 10mm, etc., I much prefer the integrally ramped barrels that provide the best case head support. FWIW, my Colt Delta 10MM, had a scary amount of unsupported brass hanging out over the barrel throat. Never had a case head actually blow, but still had the factory barrel replaced with a ramped type....
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Yep. Colt Delta Elite chamber support is scary. I loaded down to the very minimum that would cycle mine and quickly traded it off with full disclosure. I have not had a pleasant thing to say about the modern Colt company for almost a decade. I’m happy they have new owners and I hope they make plenty changes.
 
tark said:
I know little about the 9X23 Winchester other than it doesn't do anything a 9X25 Mauser won't do, at far lower pressure.
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The main thing 9x23 Win does that 9x25 Export Mauser cannot, is to fit the magazine of a 1911 or other long action Browning pattern.

Trivia: Jan Stevenson, or maybe his Continental coauthor Michael Josserand, wrote that the Mle. 1892 "Lebel" revolver was as modern a basic design as any other double action revolver and could be brought up to late 20th century standards with a few little changes.

He said that while one would want more power than the 8x27, the cylinder is not long enough for .357 Magnum. So use good steel and chamber for 9x25 Mauser with clips.
A bull barrel and landfilling grips would complete the package.
 
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tark said:
You do if you're loading them to 50,000PSI or more, like the IPSC guys were. Supers are loaded to 36,500 PSI. 9s run at 35,000 and 38,500 respectively for standard and +P loads. Those are SAAMI specs. The case thickness near the base on those rounds was not designed to handle proof load pressures. Proof rounds use steel cases or beefed up brass cases.
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Who said anything about loading them past SAAMI specs?

You'd want a ramped/fully supported chamber loading ANYTHING past SAAMI specs, including the 45 Auto.
 
Well because the point is higher pressure, not the SAMMI spec. In the case of the .460, the designer worked with a brass company to develop cases suitable for the pressure.
 
Skylerbone said:
Well because the point is higher pressure, not the SAMMI spec. In the case of the .460, the designer worked with a brass company to develop cases suitable for the pressure.
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As long as you're loading ammo within it's appointed pressure limit, SAAMI or otherwise, a ramped barrel is usually not required as long as the brass is up to the job. I'm not aware of any auto cartridge designed around, and requires, a ramped barrel, but readers should feel free to correct me.

An example of the right brass is the 9X23 Winchester. Original Winchester 9X23 Winchester brass is safe to fire in an unsupported chamber at its very high pressure. The brass is extra thick and was designed so for that purpose. However, if you use Starline's version, 9X23 Comp, it's not as thick and is not safe at very high pressure in unsupported chambers. https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/cartridge-review-9x23-winchester/99601
 
Jim Watson said:
The main thing 9x23 Win does that 9x25 Export Mauser cannot, is to fit the magazine of a 1911 or other long action Browning pattern.
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Quite right, Jim. There are 7.62X25 1911 conversions out there, But they don't work that well. I saw one that used a 38 Super mag, but you could only load 4 or 5 rounds in the mag before before they became angled so much the mag quit working. The other solution is to seat the bullet deep enough to fit in the mag. That isn't a good solution either, for obvious reasons. I tried to get les to make a frame that would accept Tokarev mags, but he didn't want any part of that. If you look at any Baer frame you will see the thickest front strap in the industry. There is more than enough metal there to remove enough to make a Tokarev mag fit.
fxvr5 said:
Who said anything about loading them past SAAMI specs?
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And I never said that factory pressure 9s and Supers needed a ramped barrel. You stated they did not and you were right, I simply stated that they did if you want to hot rod them way past factory pressures.
 
tark said:
There are 7.62X25 1911 conversions out there, But they don't work that well. I saw one that used a 38 Super mag, but you could only load 4 or 5 rounds in the mag before before they became angled so much the mag quit working. The other solution is to seat the bullet deep enough to fit in the mag. That isn't a good solution either, for obvious reasons. I tried to get les to make a frame that would accept Tokarev mags, but he didn't want any part of that. If you look at any Baer frame you will see the thickest front strap in the industry. There is more than enough metal there to remove enough to make a Tokarev mag fit.
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I read about the development of the conversion, first a lined barrel, then a monobloc type construction, and eventually new barrels for 7.62.
Magazine length was the hangup; a few rounds at a slant, or deep seated - pressure boosting bullets for a full load out. And a heavier mainspring to fire burp gun primers.
Handloading would take care of all that but would miss the point of cheap Slobovvian Surplus ammo.
I bet the conversation with Mr Baer was a hoot.
I would like to have one of the Chicom conversions to dissect. Not bad enough to pay for one, though.
 
I still want one. Imagine a Tok round loaded to 50.000 PSI. They are at around 35,500 now. Or thereabout. I'll wager you could approach 2000FPS with an 85 Gr. bullet out of a 5" BBL.
 
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