New Colt SAA?

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45 Dragoon said:
Funny you say that. I know folks that shoot 20,000 psi range loads out of theirs and they love um!! Like I posted above, the "spaghetti westerns" can be made to run as long or longer than a Ruger, you can treat um like a fool and you can't necessarily do that with a $2500 + Colt out of the box! On top of that you'd still have less than $1000 in the Uberti or Pietta!

I know everyone wants a $500.00 gun to run like a $2000.00 + gun . . . and if it won't , it's just trash . . . Folks win state championships with these guns but then they don't mind adding a buck or two to make that happen. For me, I've spent a lot of time figuring out how to make that happen with these S.A.s and it's rather satisfying when it happens.

Mike
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I like $2,000 gun because it has a horse on it.

I like $500 gun because if I screw it up, than I can try to fit it.
 
A $2000.00 gun (with a pony on it) out of the box won't make it through a CAS event if your anywhere close to a competitive shooter (in the teens). They all need work for that. If you want a Colt to last as long as a Ruger . . . it'll need work. There's a reason Rugers are the norm in the winner's circle. To make cap and ball revolvers (or the "other" Western cartridge guns) run better than the "competition" says something about the revolver in question. They CAN be made to embarrass the competition !!! Not only that , the "competition" can be made into AWESOME!!!!!

Mike
 
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Mark_Mark said:
I like $2,000 gun because it has a horse on it.

I like $500 gun because if I screw it up, than I can try to fit it.
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So, you're the conventional "brand" snob!! Lo!!!! That's fine as long as you understand your not necessarily getting the best (depending on what "best" is to you). An Italian copy in 45C can shoot hotter loads than a "pony' and the Italian copies can be made to better a Ruger for durability so . . . be careful the " fights" you pick!! You may get totally embarrassed!!! Lol (it's my job to make that happen!!! Lol).

Mike
 
45 Dragoon said:
So, you're the conventional "brand" snob!! Lo!!!! That's fine as long as you understand your not necessarily getting the best (depending on what "best" is to you). An Italian copy in 45C can shoot hotter loads than a "pony' and the Italian copies can be made to better a Ruger for durability so . . . be careful the " fights" you pick!! You may get totally embarrassed!!! Lol (it's my job to make that happen!!! Lol).

Mike
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Not going to lie, I am a brand snob, and a bit of a show off. But I would not run a Colt in a match. I would run the living daylights out of Ruger and Italian

The Colt is for BBQ’s and burning old Christmas tree on the deer lease.
 
Oh, I get the quality thing and all that but hey, Rolex makes arguably the best watch but I'd take a Patek Philippe or A. Lange &Sohne over one any day!!
Following that same thought, I'd take a F.A. over a Colt as well because of the strength thing . . . I won't belittle those that think otherwise but they aren't fooling me as far as ability. The Italians can easily run with the pony's and at less that half the cost . . . heck, anything can be a "throwaway" . . . it just depends on how deep your pockets are . . .

Mike
 
Mark_Mark said:
Just fitted the bolt, not bad, not easy either. Now I know how to do it. 1873 is pretty straight forward to work on.
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Now maybe you know how to make it function . . . but do you know how to protect the locking notches, how to extend the life of the bolt, how to adjust the reset or the amount of dissention into the frame, how to make the arm stay on the cam rather than slide off the side, how to have reset just by the weight of the hammer itself or to have the bolt head enter the notch earlier than the norm . . . that's when you're starting to get somewhere . . . lol . . .

Mike
 
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45 Dragoon said:
Now maybe you know how to make it function . . . but do you know how to protect the locking notches, how to extend the life of the bolt, how to adjust the reset or the amount of dissention into the frame, how to make the arm stay on the cam rather than slide off the side, how to have reset just by the weight of the hammer itself or to have the bolt head enter the notch earlier than the norm . . . that's when you're starting to get somewhere . . . lol . . .

Mike
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Nope, I don’t

but 1 italian sausage at a time
 
45 Dragoon said:
Oh, I get the quality thing and all that but hey, Rolex makes arguably the best watch but I'd take a Patek Philippe or A. Lange &Sohne over one any day!!
Following that same thought, I'd take a F.A. over a Colt as well because of the strength thing . . . I won't belittle those that think otherwise but they aren't fooling me as far as ability. The Italians can easily run with the pony's and at less that half the cost . . . heck, anything can be a "throwaway" . . . it just depends on how deep your pockets are . . .

Mike
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What’s a F.A. and how much they run?
 
Freedom Arms. Probably the finest S.A.revolvers made ever. Absolute works of art! I guess today it's a $2000.00 + for the entry fee. The normal diet for them would easily grenade a Colt.

In fact, I found out just about a year and a half ago that the action I finally ended up with is basically a copy of the FA action as far as spring layout and operation.

Mike
 
Mark_Mark said:
What’s a F.A. and how much they run?
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FA= Freedom Arms.
In my experience, FA manufacture the best single action revolver, their quality is exceptional.
If one is serious about hunting with a revolver, get a FA83.
They also make a slightly smaller frame unit, FA97. These are awesome in 357, 44 spl and 45 colt.
An FA83 is my primary "deer gun", plus hogs, bear gun, just about anything I hunt.
They have a great feel, smooth action, more accurate than you can hold, the trigger is crisp.
Around $3k.
 
45 Dragoon said:
Freedom Arms. Probably the finest S.A.revolvers made ever. Absolute works of art! I guess today it's a $2000.00 + for the entry fee. The normal diet for them would easily grenade a Colt.

In fact, I found out just about a year and a half ago that the action I finally ended up with is basically a copy of the FA action as far as spring layout and operation.

Mike
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Freedom Arms, the guys who makes BFR?! NICE
 
I just like slowly pulling the hammer back and listening to C..O..L.T. I busted a fraud at a Gun Show once with that simple trick.
 
Terry G said:
I just like slowly pulling the hammer back and listening to C..O..L.T. I busted a fraud at a Gun Show once with that simple trick.
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That's not a definitive indication of a Colt. I've had Uberti's and have a Pietta that spells COLT. It's all about timing. I get copies of open top Armys,Navys, as well as Remingtons in the shop that spell COLT and sometimes COLTE !! They should be spelling COL or REM.
The SAA was the first to spell COLT but what if it had an ill fitted bolt or hand and didn't have 4 clicks? You mighta missed a great deal!!!

Mike
 
Terry G said:
I just like slowly pulling the hammer back and listening to C..O..L.T. I busted a fraud at a Gun Show once with that simple trick.
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C.O.L.T. = $1,700 Pony ride, I’ll get one just to show off the Pony
 
45 Dragoon said:
Oh, I get the quality thing and all that but hey, Rolex makes arguably the best watch but I'd take a Patek Philippe or A. Lange &Sohne over one any day!!
Following that same thought, I'd take a F.A. over a Colt as well because of the strength thing . . . I won't belittle those that think otherwise but they aren't fooling me as far as ability. The Italians can easily run with the pony's and at less that half the cost . . . heck, anything can be a "throwaway" . . . it just depends on how deep your pockets are . . .

Mike
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Rolex is very good but Patek, L&S, Jaeger Le Coultre, Audemars Piguet, Omega and a couple others are considered better. Nobody else has Rolex' brand recognition. Think of Rolex like the newer Colt and the others more like USFA, Freedom Arms, Korth, etc.. Omega is like the BFR, better but underpriced and underrated.
 
desmobob said:
FA = Freedom Arms, their revolvers described accurately by a gun mag writer as "a cross between a Swiss watch and a bank vault."
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I thought that was the SAA revolver platform (as well as clones and improvements) in general ?
 
Oh...I also have a Ruger Blackhawk in .357 magnum. I had to whittle down the grip panels to fit my hands. I found the Blackhawk to be of poor balance and awkward to handle though accurate.
 
45 Dragoon said:
If you set up a Colt action with coil springs and tuning, you can extend the life of the revolver to that of a Ruger or better. Almost all of my work these days centers around the conversion from flat springs to coil springs. Maybe a handful a year at the most want the flats to remain (collectables usually). Either way, the addition of an action stop and a bolt block imparts a high degree of mechanical accuracy which makes for an almost indestructible action. The individual coils allow for "finer tuning" as they don't have near the stacking that the flats have for the same movement - so there is less stress on the part and the spring (i.e. the bolt hitting the cyl as well as the bolt arm and hammer cam interaction).

View attachment 1034815

As you can see, the left bolt arm is rather thin and considerably longer which allows for much greater flexibility / longevity and pretty much alleviates a broken bolt arm as shown in DJ's post. The slab side of the bolt block gives overall stability to the bolt and minimal lateral movement which frees up the bolt to do its job of locking/unlocking the cylinder (it also corrects an oversized or sloppy bolt window in the frame).
Also, you can see the original combination spring is "repurposed" to be a "keeper" for the springs and the bolt block. The only flat spring left is the main . . . as it should since it is the best spring suited to move a heavy hammer (Freedom Arms knows this). Coils in this roll are lazy and need to be rather heavy to match the speed of a flat. In fact a flat main can be lightened somewhat and be fashioned to increase hammer speed!! A coil such as in a Ruger can be turned into a "progressive" spring which "fools" the shooter thinking it's much lighter but then stacks as the cycle continues. This is what I've turned to for competition ROA's. It allows faster / easier cycling while retaining sufficient power to smack a cap!!

Mike

By the way, the additional holes in the frame are for interference pins and have nothing to do with the coils. The pins rest on flats ground on the screwpins and are flush with the frame surface. With trigger guard and backstrap in place (yes, there is a pin for the hammer screw as well), the action screws can't work loose.
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I have to say I am really impressed with that photo. Not sure I understand everything you are talking about. I think I get that you have substituted coil springs for the bolt and trigger, and you are using the old spring as a keeper. I think I understand the bolt block.

Not quite sure what you are saying about "the left bolt arm is rather thin and considerably longer which allows for much greater flexibility"? Do you make your own bolt? How do you make the arm longer?

Inquiring mind wants to know.

Totally agree about leaving the main spring a flat spring. There are after market parts for rifles converting the main spring to a coil spring. I don't see the point.

I do understand about coil springs having great qualities. You are probably familiar with the leaf type spring used in the Winchester Model 1873 lever safety. The ones that come with Uberti rifles are much too stiff. Some guys in CAS make the mistake of removing them so they can shoot faster. I replaced the spring with a home made coil spring that wraps around a screw. Can't find a photo of it right now. For a while Happy Trails was offering a similar spring on his website, but he is retired now.

By the way, I just checked out your web site and I am very impressed.
 
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