JFrank
Member
MOA = minute of angle
You can shoot under a minute, at a minute or over a minute.
You can shoot under a minute, at a minute or over a minute.
True but you can be precise without being accurate, it's hard to be accurate without some level of precision. Can you get 10X on target with a 10MOA gun without catching the target on fire lol.Minutes of angle (MOA), whether 1 or 10 or 0.5, is a measure of precision, not accuracy. Accuracy is getting 10 Xs in a string, regardless of whether it's from a 1 MOA gun or a 10 MOA gun.
LoLIf a ship's 16-inch gun can place shots within 200 yards at 22 miles south of the ship, that's pretty good precision*.
But if the target is actually 22 miles to the north, that's lousy accuracy.
Well, yes, especially as red-legs cannot agree on how many millirads are in a circle, which has nothing to do with Radians (2π per circle). And, of course "mils" (thousandths of an inch) are not "mils" for sighting, either (and not millimeters, either).It's a good darned thing nobody brought up radians.
Strictly speaking, the opposite of the prefix “sub” is “super” (subsonic vs supersonic), but I don’t think that term is useful to the application.
Im pretty sure sub-MOA was a term that began when the ability to shoot smaller than 1 inch @ groups at 100 yards became a more common thing.
I like this one!. My shooting is super MOA!
All rounds inside a diameter less than 1 inch at 100 yards.What is sub-MOA?
You do realize that a mil-rad as applied to shooting is the distance between the legs of an angle as measured around the circumference of another artificial and arbitrary circle?Feh ! Since somebody mentioned radians, the only logical and universal (even on Alpha Centauri VI) expression for an angle is in radians. In which a minute of angle in that very artificial and arbitrary 360° circle scheme is 2.9 X 10e-4 radians (0.000291 rad).
Therefore, I have a sub-2.9 X 10e-4 rad rifle.
Nyah-nyah-nyah, so there, Phphphfffblttt! on you 360°-bound people.
Terry
Measured center-to-center, that is.All rounds inside a diameter less than 1 inch at 100 yards.
Simple.
Another way of explaining this is as follows:
Accuracy is a mostly a SHOOTER thing. It's the ability of the shooter to sight in and hit the point of aim.
MOA is a mostly a HARDWARE thing. It's what the gun (and ammo) is CAPABLE of.
There is some overlap, of course. Hardware, which includes ammunition, gun, scope, iron sights, cleanliness, etc. can affect accuracy as well as MOA. If the scope is defective/loose, it may be impossible to achieve decent groupings, for example, as well as not be able to accurately hit the point of aim.
But if you assume the ammunition is good, the scope is good, no hurricane winds are gusting across the range, etc., then MOA is defined by the gun itself.
Of course you have impact on group size. The skill comes by figuring out how to reduce or eliminate your impact.I`ve wondered about gun performance and precision ( reproducibility of POI ). Most say that the gun, ammo, scope and environment determine this, TO THE EXCLUSION OF THE SHOOTER. So, as a shooter, I have no impact on precision? If I am not consistent in my shooting form and execution, I cannot believe that that has no impact on group size.
I`ve wondered about gun performance and precision ( reproducibility of POI ). Most say that the gun, ammo, scope and environment determine this, TO THE EXCLUSION OF THE SHOOTER. So, as a shooter, I have no impact on precision? If I am not consistent in my shooting form and execution, I cannot believe that that has no impact on group size.
We use MOA because the math is easy and it gives the ability to compensate for different distances.When I started this thread, I knew what MOA meant. My real question was people saying they are shooting MOA, when what they really mean is they are shooting groups < 1" at 100 yd, or the equivelent at other yardage.
If you want to argue semantics the rifle is shooting the exact same you're shifting your point of aim to where it was shooting.MOA is a functional charactistic of the rifle; it can be 8" from the point of aim, and then brought back to the point of aim with rifle work.
For example, as long as everyone understands that 1MOA is about 1" at 100 yards and about 2" at 200 yards, etc. then it doesn't matter whether we talk about groups in inches or MOA.
MOA is the manufactured, or after market modified accuracy capability of a rifle.
No one is shooting MOA. They are shooting groups with a rifle capable of shooting MOA.
If they are shooting 1" groups, they have adjusted their sights, ammo, position, breathing, etc. to do so.
I`ve about decided that the majority, if not the entirety, of my shooting issues are summed up in the last five words of Nature Boy`s post.MOA - it’s what your rifle can do all day, if you do your part.
I`ve about decided that the majority, if not the entirety, of my shooting issues are summed up in the last five words of Nature Boy`s post.