775yd moose

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.45Coltguy said:
Ok, said shooter takes his moose at 775 yards and is all giddy about it. Do we ever hear about the ones that are shot "at" and missed or wounded? No. No glory in that.
Which number do people think is greater? The ones you never hear about.
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I’d bet you next months rent payment that this guy has less misses than the average couple of rounds a year hunter. From what I see in the field every year a whole bunch of hunters need to spend more time at the range with a shooting mentor.
 
I stopped accepting the argument that, "Well, what about .....? He does it too. Why can't I ?" from my kids when they were 5. Someone else's miss do not excuse yours.
 
H&Hhunter said:
I’d bet you next months rent payment that this guy has less misses than the average couple of rounds a year hunter. From what I see in the field every year a whole bunch of hunters need to spend more time at the range with a shooting mentor.
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Well, that's my thought on this thread and I believe I'll stick with it. I simply wouldn't take the shot.
 
The question of what is ethical is an individual one. I have always felt that a quarter mile is a long ways to shoot at a living thing. It has to be answered by the person pulling the trigger. I believe in get close to the animal is part of hunting!!!

When Mark from Mark and Sam after work limits himself to 500 yards I will take that as good advice. He shoots more rounds at extreme distance than the vast majority of hunters would ever dream of.
 
WisBorn said:
The question of what is ethical is an individual one. I have always felt that a quarter mile is a long ways to shoot at a living thing. It has to be answered by the person pulling the trigger. I believe in get close to the animal is part of hunting!!!

When Mark from Mark and Sam after work limits himself to 500 yards I will take that as good advice. He shoots more rounds at extreme distance than the vast majority of hunters would ever dream of.
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And I don’t disagree, everyone should get out, shoot in varying conditions and set their own personal limits. It’s kind of like bush flying, when I was flying bush professionally I set my own personal limits on where I’d land and what weather minimums I was willing to fly in. Other pilots had their own different minimums.

In a Cessna 180 fully loaded I liked to have at least 800’ of flat ground. In a Super Cub I liked 500. With my rifles set up for “long range” I like to keep it inside of 600 yards and on a windy day 400 tops. Some guys would do half what I was willing to do length wise in a bush landing and some guys can and will do twice what I’m willing to shoot at.
 
Patocazador said:
My problem is that he was lazy in my estimation.
"Why stalk if I don't have to? I'll see if I can pop him from here."

That's my problem with all ultra-long distance shooters. Be sporting for God's sake! And for the animal's sake.
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That is a thing for sure. I know a guy who will back off to get more range added. “So at least the shot will be challenging.” Long range shots on game have become the purpose for hunting for some of these guys. I’m not saying that’s the case here but it is definitely for some hunters now days. Long range is their religion.

I’ve noticed that there all kinds of long range shooting schools popping up. Lots of ex military trained snipers looking for work now days it seems.
 
Patocazador said:
My problem is that he was lazy in my estimation.
"Why stalk if I don't have to? I'll see if I can pop him from here."

That's my problem with all ultra-long distance shooters. Be sporting for God's sake! And for the animal's sake.
Click to expand...

For the most part, this is my opinion. But with the optics we have now and the calibers, it is something that can be done ethically(to a point) by those who are proficient because of practice. Problem is, the majority of hunters rarely practice at such distances. The majority of them never practice past 100 yards, yet have no problem taking 300 yard shots. For many, I think it's a "holy s*&%!, that's the biggest deer I have ever seen and he's not gonna get any closer!", so they throw lead at it even tho they know the odds are slim. As for all the videos and T.V. shows lately of long distance shooting, we never get to see the gut shots and the loss of the animal. We never get to see a elk limp off with a leg blown off well below the chest cavity. But the cat is now out of the bag, there is no going back, unless the hunter stops themselves, before taking that low percentage shot.This is true tho, even for short distance low percentage shots.
 
Patocazador said:
My problem is that he was lazy in my estimation.
"Why stalk if I don't have to? I'll see if I can pop him from here."

That's my problem with all ultra-long distance shooters. Be sporting for God's sake! And for the animal's sake.
Click to expand...

That was my initial take also. Interestingly enough, I caught this video the other day:



It wasn't the .270 on elk part that intrigued me. It was how excited Spomer got as he told the story of how they closed the gap from 600 to under 200 yards before taking the shot on the bull. To me that is a major part of the excitement from hunting.

Take a look at the 7:45 mark:

"we've got to get a lot closer, how are we going to do this? we're going to sneak, that's why I hunt, the excitement and challenge of getting closer to game".
 
buck460XVR said:
those who are proficient because of practice. Problem is, the majority of hunters rarely practice at such distances. The majority of them never practice past 100 yards, yet have no problem taking 300 yard shots.
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The hunters you are describing are already challenged at 100 yards and closer. The "majority" is not equal to individuals who are the exception. Every shot is a "problem" that has a "solution". What it comes down to is if the shooter and his equipment are up to the task of solving the problem.

buck460XVR said:
we never get to see the gut shots and the loss of the animal.
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No, we don't get to see that- not even from the less skilled hunters who "blow it" at very short distances. A bad shot is a bad shot and a bell that can't be "unrung".
 
Treating a living animal as an extreme range target for a video. That sort of person is not going to give a hoot if the animal runs off and dies a suffering death. They will just roll the camera for the next one, till they get their bang flop.

Ethics does not enter into attention seeking and profit making
 
Slamfire said:
Treating a living animal as an extreme range target for a video. That sort of person is not going to give a hoot if the animal runs off and dies a suffering death. They will just roll the camera for the next one, till they get their bang flop.

Ethics does not enter into attention seeking and profit making
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Just to play devils advocate here, is 775 yards an extreme range on a calm day given the advancements in technology and training in long range hunting and shooting equipment now days?

I feel that, and I could be wrong, but I feel that a lot of hunters on this thread are framing this shot from the perspective of themselves. They are thinking of this shot being taken from a rifle with average accuracy that is sighted in at 100 yards and using the old time hold over technique to make this shot. And in those circumstances this would absolutely be an unethical shot.

But that was not the case on this shot. He’s got an exact range, he’s got a compensated range finder which takes into account temp, humidity, and local altitude compensated for barometric pressure. The range finder provides an MOA solution that he dials into his Night Force scope. Wind was slight to calm. His rifle and load is most likely capable of .5 MOA and he’s without a doubt on a solid front and rear rested shooting rest. Given he’s in the field let’s say he opens that CEP to 1 MOA which is a 7.5” circle at 775 yards on a kill zone that is probably 30” tall and 36” wide.

He’s obviously practiced shooting long range extensively. He drops the sear on an empty chamber several times checking that his cross hairs have no wobble. Then calmly executes the shot, he’s obviously highly experienced and this ain’t his first rodeo on moose or at taking a shot like this.

You simply can not frame this from your perspective unless you’ve got his skills and ability and equipment and the experience in that situation that allow you to fully understand the risks involved.

I’ll continue to agree to disagree with the nay sayers here, and I’m really enjoying your opinions and thoughts on this. It’s been a great conversation so far.
 
buck460XVR said:
But the cat is now out of the bag, there is no going back, unless the hunter stops themselves, before taking that low percentage shot.This is true tho, even for short distance low percentage shots.
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I see plenty of gut shots and clipped off legs on close range high percentage shots every season executed by overly excited hunters. The guy in the video doesn’t seem to me to overly excited, under confident or under skilled. To him that’s probably a high percentage shot.
 
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H&Hhunter said:
But that was not the case on this shot. He’s got an exact range, he’s got a compensated range finder which takes into account temp, humidity, and local altitude compensated for barometric pressure. The range finder provides an MOA solution that he dials into his Night Force scope. Wind was slight to calm. His rifle and load is most likely capable of .5 MOA and he’s without a doubt on a solid front and rear rested shooting rest. Given he’s in the field let’s say he opens that CEP to 1 MOA which is a 7.5” circle at 775 yards on a kill zone that is probably 30” tall and 36” wide.
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As an old coot I found shooting out in the sun in a quilted coat and pulling targets in one degree heat a young man's game. And if you are shooting in the shade, temperatures never drop below ambient. I used to be squadded with National Champions, and one Wimbleton Cup winner I was shooting with, we were discussing at the 1000 yard range, before we shot our sighters, how horrible we were compared to the internet experts. Given we knew the range, had previous zero's with the same ammunition, we were just happy to get our first sighting shot in the black, never mind the X ring. The X ring is ten inches, the black 44 inches.

At that range, the 300 range flags lied, the 600 yard were not much better. The mirage was always good, if it was running, if you could see it. When wind conditions turned into a boil, anything could happen between the muzzle and target.

Another range, the long range shooters fire across a huge chasm, and the devil lives in that space, and no one can see the devil, nor predict what he does to their bullet.

This range, the flags point inward to each other, or in any random direction. There are times I can tell there are tubular winds rolling from right to left, or left to right.

nn9H4hg.jpg

the flag in front of me is pointing at 11 OC, the 600 yard flag is pointing at 7 or 9 OC. An X ring first shot would be total luck and guesswork.

uqyuyzP.jpg

Now I shoot smallbore prone a couple of times a month, and I can tell you, even across a 100 yard range, wind is not linear. There are air bubbles, barrel rolling winds, invisible dust devils, directional changes, pick ups and let ups that come from no where and will cause a train wreck . I have seen my twenty five yard flag flick, and only my flag flick, which has blown me out of the ten ring at 50 yards. After this happens, I complain to the shooters to my left and right, that it is unfair that they got the wind tunnel firing points!


Dedicated gamblers think they have a method, but the only method they really have, is losing in the long run. They think they are in control, but they are not. You cannot convince delusional people that they are not in control. And anything thinking that he has control of the wind for 775 yards is fooling themselves.

These internet experts, just how where do they place at the F Class Nationals? Consistency, that is 20 shots in the half MOA target at 1000 yards, is pretty darn good. Can Mr Longrange hunter do that?

How many moose did Mr Longrange hunter shoot before he got his bang flop? Think these videos are not edited?
 
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Ru4real said:
I killed my 2022 elk, archery, on Saturday, two days ago. The first shot at 15 yards broke a front shoulder and failed to enter the chest because elk stepped as I released. Elk jumped at second shot at 88 yards and right Achilles was severed, arrow flight time about a second, the bow sound got there in about a quarter of a second. Two good legs left. Hot pursuit. The third shot was at 20 yards as elk was getting up, a good double lunger that ended it.
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As a longbow hunter, this is a serious consideration for me. I make twenty yards my maximum, and would prefer ten. Obviously this results in a lot of missed opportunities and blown stalks, and the desire to take a low-percentage shot can sometimes be enormously powerful. Even then, I know that a successful shot is likely going to cause more suffering and a slower death than would, say, a .30 caliber at 3000 fps.

I wouldn't worry about it if I was a subsistence hunter. It's still a better shake than the critter would get at the claws and teeth of a different predator. But I'm not a subsistence hunter. This is, for lack of a better word, a hobby, and I'm not sure I'm justified in using a method that I know is likely to cause more suffering - and a higher loss percentage - than will more common methods. Which is the same argument, now that I think of it, that I make against extreme long range rifle hunting.

So I don't know. Maybe I'm a hypocrite. Or maybe I should just buy all my meat from the grocery counter. But I do believe we have at least some kind of obligation to game animals, as long as we choose to go out and kill them.
 
Laphroaig said:
This guys motive from the get-go was to make a YouTube video that he could turn into money.
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Maybe off topic, but maybe not. Does anybody know how YouTube works w/r to making money? How much can this guy pocket from his efforts?

Considering his time, effort packing out the meat, cost of the tag and airplane fuel is it worth it? If he gets a shoulder mount (assuming his house has a room with a 15 foot ceiling) he's down another grand or so.
 
Laphroaig said:
Maybe off topic, but maybe not. Does anybody know how YouTube works w/r to making money? How much can this guy pocket from his efforts?

Considering his time, effort packing out the meat, cost of the tag and airplane fuel is it worth it? If he gets a shoulder mount (assuming his house has a room with a 15 foot ceiling) he's down another grand or so.
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There is always attention seeking.


_95268205_img_4238.jpg.webp



_95268207_img_4231.jpg.webp



1c09e887c99b0?impolicy=wcms_crop_resize&cropH=399&cropW=600&xPos=0&yPos=190&width=862&height=575.jpg


article-2633663-1E078D4600000578-320_634x414.jpg

Crazies taking selfies of themselves on top of skyscrapers don't get there free. Plane trip, transportation to hotel, hotel costs, etc. And the big payout, a selfie on top of the tallest skyscrapers in the world. Attention seeking is not rational. Sometimes it is fatal. I found a web page listing a number of attention seekers who got killed taking their selfie.

http://www.cruisebruise.com/Cruise/..._Photo_Deaths_Injuries_Extreme_Daredevil.html

I would not do this either.
 
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Slamfire said:
As an old coot I found shooting out in the sun in a quilted coat and pulling targets in one degree heat a young man's game. And if you are shooting in the shade, temperatures never drop below ambient. I used to be squadded with National Champions, and one Wimbleton Cup winner I was shooting with, we were discussing at the 1000 yard range, before we shot our sighters, how horrible we were compared to the internet experts. Given we knew the range, had previous zero's with the same ammunition, we were just happy to get our first sighting shot in the black, never mind the X ring. The X ring is ten inches, the black 44 inches.

At that range, the 300 range flags lied, the 600 yard were not much better. The mirage was always good, if it was running, if you could see it. When wind conditions turned into a boil, anything could happen between the muzzle and target.

Another range, the long range shooters fire across a huge chasm, and the devil lives in that space, and no one can see the devil, nor predict what he does to their bullet.

This range, the flags point inward to each other, or in any random direction. There are times I can tell there are tubular winds rolling from right to left, or left to right.

View attachment 1100176

the flag in front of me is pointing at 11 OC, the 600 yard flag is pointing at 7 or 9 OC. An X ring first shot would be total luck and guesswork.

View attachment 1100178

Now I shoot smallbore prone a couple of times a month, and I can tell you, even across a 100 yard range, wind is not linear. There are air bubbles, barrel rolling winds, invisible dust devils, directional changes, pick ups and let ups that come from no where and will cause a train wreck . I have seen my twenty five yard flag flick, and only my flag flick, which has blown me out of the ten ring at 50 yards. After this happens, I complain to the shooters to my left and right, that it is unfair that they got the wind tunnel firing points!


Dedicated gamblers think they have a method, but the only method they really have, is losing in the long run. They think they are in control, but they are not. You cannot convince delusional people that they are not in control. And anything thinking that he has control of the wind for 775 yards is fooling themselves.

These internet experts, just how where do they place at the F Class Nationals? Consistency, that is 20 shots in the half MOA target at 1000 yards, is pretty darn good. Can Mr Longrange hunter do that?

How many moose did Mr Longrange hunter shoot before he got his bang flop? Think these videos are not edited?
Click to expand...

When I say this it isn’t meant as an insult because one of the best long range hunters I know is a master class competition rifle shooter.

In general of the half dozen or so F class shooters I’ve taken out hunting I can out shoot them handily in the field on game. I can’t tell you what it is for certain but target shooters tend to have a tough time on live game. I think a huge part of the issue is allowing perfect to get in the way of good. One of the issues that I do see is the length of time it takes for some of these guys to get set up for a shot. Critters ain’t stationary targets if you give them enough time, they’ll move off.

As far as editing out the missed shots or wounded game, you’re making an assumption, it’s totally possible that they do edit out the negative, it’s possible that they don’t. Stuck n the Rut has a large number of videos on YouTube, from what I’ve seen they seem to be pretty decent hunters and shooters with both rifle and archery. So they do know how to get closer to game if they want to.

And of course content sells, so they are going to show good content or they wouldn’t still be producing videos after 12 years.

It seems to me that Adam, the pilot has a flying service up there. So I’m guessing they try to stay on the good side of the hunting community. One thing is for sure, he can fly the heck out of a Super Cub on tundra tires.

I get what you’re saying about internet experts, nothing trumps real world experience. Which I have an extensive amount of in the field on game animals of multiple species. So I hope that comment wasn’t aimed at me.

In regards to your wind flag comment I get it 100%. The thing is you don’t need an X ring shot to kill a moose. If you can keep it within about 3 to 4 MOA it’ll be in the kill zone. I think you might have just identified why many target shooters get overly stressed about shooting live game. It’s a different discipline that produces different stressors and uses similar but different skill sets.

On a moose I need to hit a kill zone about the size of a compact car door. I really don’t care about punching the X Ring.
 
H&Hhunter said:
I see plenty of gut shots and clipped off legs on close range high percentage shots every season executed by overly excited hunters. The guy in the video doesn’t seem to me to overly excited, under confident or under skilled. To him that’s probably a high percentage shot.
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I agree, which is why I included this in my original post.....

buck460XVR said:
But with the optics we have now and the calibers, it is something that can be done ethically(to a point) by those who are proficient because of practice.
Click to expand...


My Dad earned his Marine "Marksman" medal in WWII. He often talked about shooting 600-1000 yards with a Garand with open sights for training. I can't imagine even seeing a target @ 1000 yards without optics. Yet, those old Vets did it. But again, with practice and the proper tools.
 
buck460XVR said:
I agree, which is why I included this in my original post.....




My Dad earned his Marine "Marksman" medal in WWII. He often talked about shooting 600-1000 yards with a Garand with open sights for training. I can't imagine even seeing a target @ 1000 yards without optics. Yet, those old Vets did it. But again, with practice and the proper tools.
Click to expand...

I've competed at 800-1000 and shot buffalo matches out to 1250 or so, both with irons. They're all using pretty big targets. From the NRA rule book:

4.7 800, 900, and 1000 Yard Target (a) NRA No. LR— Aiming Black (inches) Rings in White (inches)

X ring .................................10.00
10 ring ................................20.00
9 ring ..................................30.00
8 ring ..................................44.00
7 ring................................60.00
6 area....................72x72 square
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So a 6' backing board. I never had issues seeing the black, and I'd swap out my front insert to give me just enough daylight around it to be centered. When we shot with the BP guns, we only set up every other tgt because a missed wind call would often end up on the next shooter's TGT.
 
I’ve got to say, watching some of this family’s hunting videos, I’m really getting a good vibe. They are not the “wack ‘em and stack ‘em” to heavy metal music we see so often on various hunting shows. They seem extremely legitimate, real deal hunters.
https://youtu.be/QYVPM7yYLgk
 
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