Bikes (cycling) and guns

Phydeaux642, you may or may not be right about whether a golf ball thrown at 50 mph is lethal force (I doubt it is) but what are you going to do, open fire into the back of the car that threw it at you? You aren't defending yourself in these cases, you are exacting revenge.

As for dogs, there are better ways to handle them. I'd like to know what certain people on here would do to dogs? Would they gun down any dog that starts barking at them? In certain neighborhoods, (especially the neighborhoods described as not so good) that's a good way to get shot. Furthermore, although it's normally illegal to let dogs roam, you are opening yourself up to civil litigation, as well as legal problems, if you fire a weapon in an incorporated area when you really aren't in any danger.

So, maybe you shoot the dog when it's already bit you? That's good, you're riding a bike, or you just fell off of it, and you are trying to keep a dog off of you, and you want to start discharging a firearm. How many people here have practiced shooting a gun while being attacked by a dog? I'd wager none, but I'd guarantee not many.

Why would you give recommendations to someone who indicates that he would use a gun when he shouldn't be using one? Of course, there are situations where a gun is good to have, and I see no reason why a cyclist shouldn't carry a gun, but some people are making it painfully obvious that they should not be carrying guns.

My bicycle is my main vehicle. I get around using it about 50X more than in my truck,
which I only use when I need to haul something large or get out of town.

I currently carry OWB, but am planning to go to a shoulder holster next year.

Chaoss:

...but some people are making it painfully obvious that they should not be carrying guns.

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He told us a situation which served as a wake up call to make him want to change his CC pistol. He said he already carries a pistol and he clearly didn't shoot whoever threw the bottle at him. He didn't say he wanted a bigger gun to go back and "teach those punks a lesson". He just wants to be prepared, he isn't declaring war. I don't see what he did or said to make you decide he shouldn't have a gun.

How many people here have practiced shooting a gun while being attacked by a dog?

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Is that a qualification for concealed carry? I guess I just don't see why you have decided that he shouldn't carry a gun. Maybe I've misunderstood your post as I believe you misunderstood the OP's.

He told us a situation which served as a wake up call to make him want to change his CC pistol. He said he already carries a pistol and he clearly didn't shoot whoever threw the bottle at him. He didn't say he wanted a bigger gun to go back and "teach those punks a lesson". He just wants to be prepared, he isn't declaring war. I don't see what he did or said to make you decide he shouldn't have a gun.

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No, he said he needed to be better prepared for situations that might be more dangerous, implying that a situation like the one he described might also be serious enough to warrant a gun.

Is that a qualification for concealed carry? I guess I just don't see why you have decided that he shouldn't carry a gun. Maybe I've misunderstood your post as I believe you misunderstood the OP's.

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Of course it isn't. However, if someone is going to carry a gun to defend themselves from a dog while on a bike, they need to think this one through. When do they think they are going to use said gun, and are they really going to be able to use it when that line is crossed without putting the whole neighborhood in danger? Furthermore, would their needs be better served through other methods of dealing with dogs?

I don't like the idea of some of these people carrying guns, to be honest. Carrying a gun is a responsibility, and if you are going to do it, you should know when you are going to use it. I see it sort of in the same way as if someone came in here talking about how they are tired of getting cut off by other drivers, and wanting to know if we would recommend a hand gun or shotgun to deal with his problem.

Wow, this has sure turned into a far more controversial thread than I would have expected. I didn't really get the impression that the OP was planning to shoot someone over a sports drink, but rather that he wanted to be prepared if a more serious/life threatening even occurred!

Personally, I'm not a real serious cyclist, but I do ride a lot (I'm more of a mountain biker myself, but still put about 15-20 road miles per day on my full-suspension knobby-tired bike). For me, I'm not all that concerned about traveling in an ultra-light configuration, particularly given the bike that I'm riding. I do try to minimize unecessary weight, but I also always carry some sort of water bladder hydration pack when I'm riding (I like the Camelbaks better than I like water bottles). Anyway, I have one very small and very lightweight camelbak that I sometimes use while cycling. It isn't really designed to hold anything except water, but I've found that it does a great job of also holding a Glock 27 (9+1 rounds of .40 S&W).

Obviously a setup where the gun is in your backpack isn't going to be a real "fast draw" type of rig, but I still think it is better than nothing when you are out on the roads/bike trails.

Cosmoline said:

Lawfully riding down public roads is NOT "looking for trouble." This is all about the freedom to make choices for ourselves rather than being bullied or scared onto highways because a commute runs through a bad part of town. We either own our streets or someone else will take them over. Cyclists are uniquely situated to observe and help to safeguard streets. We see everything and are moving slow enough to really get to know when things aren't quite right. It's a positive public good to have cyclists commuting in neighborhoods. That doesn't mean I would ever go looking for a fight. I am a proud coward when it comes to that. But to suggest we have to concede whole neighborhoods to criminals is outrageous. Absolutely outrageous.

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Well maybe I am just a moron, but how exactly is riding your bike through a "not-so-nice neighborhood" taking back the streets? How does his presence help "safeguard" the streets? I do see LEOs on bicycle and horseback, but how is the ordinary "civilian" helping accomplish this in any way?

The OP is apparently doing this just for health reasons, not because he has no other choices. But ultimately, it is his choice.

If you really want to show these "thugs" you mean business, why not open carry? Let them see you are armed and I'd be willing to bet that will result in a much smoother commute! There have been threads on THR about the legality of OC in Indiana, but it would be best if the OP checks with his local PD/Sheriff Dept. just to make sure.

I don't take legal advice from stangers on an Internet forum and neither should he!

Scott

...

your current ccw should be okay....

or...

I find GoColt's response very interesting.

Before responding though, I would like to point out my credentials. I was not just a professional racer, but also owned a bicycle shop. For the person who mentioned mountain biking, I am a co-founder of the National Off Road Bicycling Association. I built the first mountain bike in Arizona. I ran the first mountain bike race outside of California. I know a bit about the sport.

As to shooting, I am an NRA certified instructor and a CCW instructor with more than 500 hours of training. I was also a law enforcement certified instructor.

As to my comments about portly, I've never met a serious cyclist who was overweight. I've met many recreational and commuter bicycle riders who were overweight. Even 20 years after retiring from the sport I am still lighter than my recommended body weight.

As for dogs, there is an excellent product called Halt! Dog Repellent, that is lightweight, easy to carry and has a pocket clip built in. It costs about $6 or 7. There is a can of it sitting less than three feet from me right now. It is available in almost every bicycle shop. It works very well even on the most determined evil canine. I use it now so I can walk my 7-pound terrier without fear of him being eaten by a neighborhood pet.

What has not been mentioned is that the vast majority of dangers faced by cyclists have nothing to do with aggressive idiots. Over the years I've lost many friends to motorists. People making right turns and cutting you off is my biggest complaint. I lost one friend to a logging truck that flattened him with its rear wheels by doing so.

Cars crossing the road and underestimating your speed is another. I once laid a bike down and slid under a semi trailer because he did not understand I was going 60+ mph downhill and pulled out in front of me. I lost pretty much all the skin on the right side, but it wasn't really the truck driver's fault. He just couldn't conceive of a human-powered vehicle going faster than cars down the hill.

I've been hit by eggs, spit, bottles, extended rear view mirrors and every other sort of odd object you can imagine. In every case, reacting aggressively would have been a mistake.

I even had my butt spanked while standing on the pedals to climb a mountain. Yup, I never did do seven miles to work. I did 30 miles climbing 5,000 feet up a mountain with winning foremost in my mind.

I never rode 14 miles a day. I rode 500 miles a week and took one day off the bike every week. I kept a written log of every mile. As far back as the '70s I computerized my records.

If you want to carry a gun on your bike that's fine - carry a gun. Bear in mind it is for the same purposes you carry in your auto. Not to spray and pray at an attacking dog or some yutz who tosses a golf ball out the window. It is to PREVENT or neutralize an immediate threat. The golf ball is long gone. Now that you are aware of better ways to neutralize and attacking dog you will be liable for any consequences to shooting.

If they run you off the road and then come after you with baseball bats, then you have a right to self defense.

Nothing here has demonstrated that anyone here has ever had an actual need for self defense while cycling. Instead it has shown a desire to exercise some macho.

What strikes me as really odd about this subject is that if I'm wearing pants I'm carrying two guns. And, I don't need to ask anyone which guns or of what type they should be.

Arrogant? It is incredibly arrogant to consider yourself a cyclist when all you ride is a few miles a day. It is astoundingly arrogant to consider yourself properly prepared to carry a concealed gun when you don't have a clue what kind of gun to carry.

Last, but not least, KT has the best service department I've ever dealt with. It is shockingly good.

It is incredibly arrogant to consider yourself a cyclist when all you ride is a few miles a day. It is astoundingly arrogant to consider yourself properly prepared to carry a concealed gun when you don't have a clue what kind of gun to carry.

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What possible difference can it make whether he calls himself a cyclist or not? Does the definition of "cyclist" seriously make a difference to the question of whether and what type of firearm he should carry on his bicycle? Really?

Poeple carry because they don't get to choose when trouble comes calling. Why would somebody want to carry in a car when they can just drive away from whatever trouble comes? The OP came here to find recommendations from people who already had experience carrying firearms with them while biking. Asking what type of gun worked best for them doesn't make him unprepared to carry.

chaoss

No, he said he needed to be better prepared for situations that might be more dangerous, implying that a situation like the one he described might also be serious enough to warrant a gun.

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He is not implying what you say he is, you are inferring it, and you are doing so incorrectly at that. Read what he said in a reply to loop:

goColt

I am not talking about shooting someone over a sport drink. I am looking for a larger caliber and larger capacity gun for if/when I encounter something more serious than what I described as already happened.

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And again, I think you have misread the situation.

I see it sort of in the same way as if someone came in here talking about how they are tired of getting cut off by other drivers, and wanting to know if we would recommend a hand gun or shotgun to deal with his problem.

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I see it sort of in the same way as if he is now thinking what if the bottle had knocked him off the bike and they tried to mug him.

loop

Nothing here has demonstrated that anyone here has ever had an actual need for self defense while cycling.

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You're right, and that means that nothing could ever happen so he should stop worrying about it and never carry a gun. What do any of us really need a gun for anyway when we have other options and are unlikely to need it?

loop:

It is astoundingly arrogant to consider yourself properly prepared to carry a concealed gun when you don't have a clue what kind of gun to carry.

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The man is asking for suggestions, read the handgun forums and tell me how many members are astoundingly arrogant because they don't know every type of gun out there that might work for them. Read your post and his again and tell me who is "astoundingly arrogant", the guy asking for advice or the guy touting his achievements and telling everyone they can't call themselves cyclists because they aren't professional enough. He wants to ride his bike to work, is that somehow personally offensive to you? If not then calm down and see if we can answer a simple question.

Wow,

In the spirit of helping others, instead of this debate about riding on two wheels, here is my plan:

I don't commute (unfortunately) because of circumstances, and I don't ride nearly as much as some folks have bragged about; but I ride about 100-200 miles a week with spandex on.

I am going to get a Glock 26 or a XD9 subcompact soon, and carry it in the back pocket of a cycling jersey in a pocket holster. I think it will be important to get a corrosion resistant pistol, get a water resistant holster to keep sweat off of the gun, and wipe it down daily. I will just have to reach around my back for the draw, so it will be a fast draw, and it will stay with me at all times, on or off the bike. I think being able to quickly get off of the bike and keeping the gun is a good advantage.

Just the same as any time I CCW, I don't foresee a problem while I am cycling, but those situations that I don't foresee are the exact reason I want to be ready to defend myself. Just like Thomas Jefferson's walks, my gun will be a great bicycling companion.

Arrogant? It is incredibly arrogant to consider yourself a cyclist when all you ride is a few miles a day. It is astoundingly arrogant to consider yourself properly prepared to carry a concealed gun when you don't have a clue what kind of gun to carry.

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Wow. Welcome to the list.

can you really carry a rifle slung over your back on a motorcycle like in Mp7's picture?

I am going to get a Glock 26 or a XD9 subcompact soon, and carry it in the back pocket of a cycling jersey in a pocket holster.

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Landing on it could really mess up your spine. I think a chest holster would be the best way to carry on a bike.

It's like I walked into a bar in here, full of arrogant people full of one sided opinions and BS so deep I'll need to put my boots on.

I ride a bike. I mostly ride mountain bike trail, sometimes freeride my mountain bike in a urban setting. I carry a gun, because of feral animals, and feral humans.

I don't see how riding my bike is any different from walking down the street or in Target, I'll be carrying regardless of the situation. If you carry sometime, why not carry all the time. If you have made up your mind that you will be ready for any situation, anytime, and have convinced yourself you are capable and ready to take someone's life when threatened with the loss of your own, why only take part in this decision part time?



Now onto topic. Camelback makes 2 rigs specifically for concealed carry. They make both a fanny pack and backpack with a velcro concealed holster. I wear a camelback 100% of the time in the saddle, so it's an easy choice. The models are the Goblin for the fannypack and the Demon for the backpack.
You can fit up to a full size 1911 in the backpack and not notice it.

Splitzx,

Do you get condensation or sweat on the pistol? How quick is the access to the pistol?

They don't seem to sell those anymore. Do you have a link or a different model?

Thanks

1858rem said:

can you really carry a rifle slung over your back on a motorcycle like in Mp7's picture?

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Check the open carry laws in your jurisdiction for the answer. Like I said, an Internet forum is the LAST place you should look for legal advice!

Scott

Well maybe I am just a moron, but how exactly is riding your bike through a "not-so-nice neighborhood" taking back the streets?

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Simple. Nice people riding through iffy neighborhoods help make those neighborhoods more nice. Criminals do not like operating where there are people watching them.

The OP is apparently doing this just for health reasons, not because he has no other choices. But ultimately, it is his choice.

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Exactly *HIS* choice. And nobody should be avoiding a public road because of potential thuggery. That's not the same as looking for a fight, anymore than opting to remain in a bad neighborhood is looking for a fight.

Nothing here has demonstrated that anyone here has ever had an actual need for self defense while cycling.

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Did you miss the part where I came upon the aftermath of a drive by? Are you suggesting that bicycles are immune from crime and other risks? That dogs don't maul cyclists? Heck, up here BROWN BEAR have nailed a few of us.

I've never met a serious cyclist who was overweight.

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You mean a serious RACING cyclist in competition, I assume. I commute at twenty below zero, which is quite serious. My eyeball froze shut one time. I'll wager that never happened to Lance. I've been car free for several years now, so when I want to go to the Costco I have to haul my portly self seven miles over there, fill the trailer, and haul a hundredweight of goods back home. When I started back on the bike I topped out at nearly 450 lbs. That's like riding with two other riders on you, which is also something old Lance never had to contend with. I wonder how far he would get at that weight. Or how well he'd be treated by arrogant jerks in the LBS's.

In my book, anyone with the guts to get on the bicycle and go anywhere in this country deserves respect as a cyclist. Even the portly and old among us face ridicule, cars, trucks, and a positively hostile road system. We ought not to be attacking each other like this. Just as we shouldn't be attacking someone with perfectly valid questions re. carrying a firearm. Simply because you never needed one decades ago when you raced doesn't mean a commuter on today's streets shouldn't be carrying. Nor does it give you any right to deride us because you built the first mountain bike in Arizona lord knows how many decades ago. You either get out there and ride or you don't, that's it.

consider yourself properly prepared to carry a concealed gun when you don't have a clue what kind of gun to carry.

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The purpose of this forum is to ask such questions. It's arrogant to assume you already know the best type of firearm. A wise person will always be open to new ideas, and always be willing to ask "stupid" questions.

I am an NRA certified instructor and a CCW instructor with more than 500 hours of training. I was also a law enforcement certified instructor.

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If so, then you really shouldn't have needed me to remind you of this.

What was the OP's question again?

I'd say that the Kel-tec would be fine - I can't say I like the gun in pocket idea, or open carrying, while on a bike.

How about a chest holster?

http://www.survivalsheath.com/holsters/index.htm

It's hard to conceal a chest holster unless you button up all the time even on the bike. But if you're open carrying it's just about perfect. I wonder if there's a way to have a tear-away front panel on a jersey or something.

My quote:

Well maybe I am just a moron, but how exactly is riding your bike through a "not-so-nice neighborhood" taking back the streets?

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Cosmoline said:

Simple. Nice people riding through iffy neighborhoods help make those neighborhoods more nice. Criminals do not like operating where there are people watching them.

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Well isn't that being all warm and fuzzy! Now who's being naive? A member of an organized gang would just as soon blow your head off as give you the time of day. They have no respect for human life. To them, a cyclist is probably just easy prey.

Cosmoline said:

And nobody should be avoiding a public road because of potential thuggery. That's not the same as looking for a fight, anymore than opting to remain in a bad neighborhood is looking for a fight.

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Nobody? A smart person would avoid it! The OP has already admitted this is a "not-so-nice" neighborhood and he has already had a bad experience there. Going back is like giving your father a razor strop and saying, Here, beat me with this!" Why would you intentionally go back to a place where you know you are likely to be assaulted again?

Scott

They have no respect for human life. To them, a cyclist is probably just easy prey.

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Whether he's easy or not depends on how well he's armed. But in general, and in my considerable experience riding in bad neighborhoods, criminals are like roaches and scatter at the gaze of the lawful. The more of us there are, the less they like being around. That's why they like to operate where the people are running scared.

A smart person would avoid it!

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We're talking about THE PUBLIC ROADS here. No lawful man should ever have to leave them for fear of bandits. If you want to that's your problem.

Why would you intentionally go back to a place where you know you are likely to be assaulted again?

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Because it's my right to travel the public roads. By your logic someone who gets broken into should just move or be blamed for "asking for trouble."

I wonder if there's a way to have a tear-away front panel on a jersey or something.

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Could make one with needle, thread, and some velcro, I'd think...

It's a crazy idea, but I like it! Sort of a superman carry.