Unintended Consequences - John Ross

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At Amazon.com Unintended Consequences has 398 customer reviews averaging 4.5 out of 5 stars.
The prices are enough to make one see stars:
- New priced from 243.65 to 317.36 and one at 625.00
- Used priced from 149.48 (very good) to 314.80 (like new), one at 500.00
- One used signed by author 249.50 (like new).
The vendors appear to be serious.
 
Good Grief. I have two signed books never read. Another read. I will not sell mine. Love the book. Have a poster sized print of the front cover framed in my home. LOVE IT.
 
Maybe a bit extreme, but without specifically trying to offend any of its fans I have to say I find the novel entirely despicable on many significant levels.
 
I view it less as "literature" in a Hemingway/Faulkner sense as it is a historical fiction novel and probably a veiled call to arms. So let's try not to be too critical of the writer and take it for what it is. I understand that some don't like the gratuitous sex scenes, but that's between the writer and each reader. Supply and Demand (i.e. cost) tells us that it at least has a readership greater than it's production.
 
Maybe a bit extreme, but without specifically trying to offend any of its fans I have to say I find the novel entirely despicable on many significant levels.
Are you thinking of the racism? Very little regard for Black women in this book. The casual murders? Oh, I know, you really hated the whole feeding the hogs thing didn't you? Perhaps it was the portrayal of all BATF employees as both evil and incompetent?

I thought it would have been more realistic to have S & W revolvers falling apart after shooting a few thousand rounds of up-loaded .44 Magnum. I would have preferred some mention of Ruger revolvers as part of the .44 Magnum discussion. I'm guessing that Ross snubbed Bill Ruger for his magazine capacity comments.

I liked the book a lot and would recommend it to anyone. It's an excellent short history of US gun control and gun culture. It's a great plot, you have to root for the 'Good Guys.' I liked the boy hero aspect to it. I liked the rich details about guns, especially the WWII anti-tank guns.

I wonder if this book helped to rein in the BATF in the last 20 years. Seems to me that the BATF has not committed any large scale atrocities here lately.

I think there is a good market for Unintended Consequences and that it will be back in print soon. The illustration on the cover is outstanding.

I'm interested to hear more about why you hate this book.


ETA - I thought the sex scenes were mild, tastefully done, were an important part of the plot and were in no way "gratuitous." Also, there was nothing veiled about this call to arms.
 
I would have preferred some mention of Ruger revolvers as part of the .44 Magnum discussion. I'm guessing that Ross snubbed Bill Ruger for his magazine capacity comments.

maybe, maybe not.

It is important to remember that John is a Smith guy.

S&W is my favorite arms maker, bar none.

He manages to work the following into a column where he gives advice to Smith and Wesson on how to expand their heavy 44 magnum market.

http://www.john-ross.net/heavymag.php



So I'm a double action revolver guy. And it's pretty hard to be a double action revolver guy without coming to the conclusion that the best double action revolvers are almost always made by Smith & Wesson. Smith & Wessons have the best triggers, the best fit and finish, the best chamber/throat/bore dimensions and hence the best accuracy, the best balance, the best looks, and the best overall feel.


his disdain for Ruger is well documented (emphasis added)

Ruger’s Redhawk and Super Redhawk are capable of digesting
large quantities of 320-grain magnum loads without ill effect.
That’s the good news. The bad news is that from the factory they
have poor quality triggers, and their design is such that even the
most talented gunsmith can’t make them as good as an out-of-thebox S&W trigger.
Further, Ruger’s interrelated dimensional
tolerances for chambers, throats, and barrels are not nearly as
precise as Smith & Wesson’s, and Redhawks tend to be oversize in
at least two and usually all three of these areas, with resultant
mediocre accuracy. The problem is so pervasive that Hamilton
Bowen has built a business out of taking Redhawks in .357 or .41
Magnum caliber and reboring, rerifling, and rechambering them to
44 Magnum so as to get the proper (tighter) dimensions. This.
more than doubles the cost of the gun but some are willing to pay
that to get a bull-strong .44 that is accurate and points almost as
well as a S&W
 
Thank you!

Thank you all for your helpful follow-up on this older thread. Much appreciated!
It appears the plan is to watch for a copy to be borrowed from a friend or hopefully having good luck at a garage/estate sale.
Investing several hundred dollars on a novel just isn't in the cards right now.

As an aside, I'll continue to purchase any new books added to the "Enemies Trilogy" as they were each spectacular.
 
Here's an Abe Books search. 5 used copies for sale at less than $150. One for $100.

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=John+Ross&sts=t&tn=unintended+consequences&x=0&y=0


I'm an optimist, I have hope that it will go back into print before too long.


Guillermo, thanks for the link to the John Ross site. He says that Smith and Wesson has rebuilt or replaced all of the DA .44 Magnums that he's worn out. Hard to beat that deal. That makes them equal to eternal and indestructible guns, for as long as S&W still lives.
 
I'm interested to hear more about why you hate this book.

On a purely technical level, the book is an example of very poor writing. It's wordy, it meanders, it's full of was and adverbs. In terms of narrative, the book is over a thousand pages and tells a story that could have been told in better depth in a few hundred. It goes on for pages and pages with gun descriptions that would look overlong in a technical manual and descriptions of gore that become boring rather than shocking purely due to their length.

On top of this, the book falls into a category of literature which is possibly the lowest form of writing. It seems to exist purely as the author's personal wish fulfillment. It is fairly obvious, in fact, that the novel's protagonist is little more than a clone of the author himself, made into some kind of superhero and given all the cool stuff, women, and riches that the author has always wanted. Wish fulfillment is one thing, but when wish fulfillment involves torturing and murdering people and feeding their severed phallus to a pig it becomes something deranged to boot. The novel is a power fantasy in which the author imagines himself imposing his will violently on others using his lovingly detailed guns. And of course he has no trouble at all doing this. One man with his .44 Magnum takes on all of the united states government and not only wins but wins very easily, which is of course so ridiculous as to be outright comical, except I think the author actually believes it.

On a moral level, it's worse, because I can't come up with any reading of this book that doesn't condone terrorism in our own country. The hero assassinates democratically elected officials for political reasons and to frighten other democratically elected officials into surrendering to his demands. That's not just terrorism -- that's Terrorism vs. American Democracy: Terrorism wins, and wins gloriously. This is what the author fantasizes about happening -- not court victories, not democratic victories, not victories in which the villains are exposed and lawfully punished for their crimes, but violent victories through terrorism, particularly featuring himself murdering the people he dislikes most. We even have a scene in which the hero forces a man, under threat of torture, to read a statement condemning the hero's enemies before he is murdered and hacked apart. This is exactly, 100%, what Al Qaeda does to people. Why isn't this obvious?

You mention racism. I'll go further and say John Ross multiple times presents black women as a caricature more filled with seething racial hatred and bigotry than an 1860s minstrel show. He indicates his disdain for ATF agents by presenting them as a ghetto black woman named Gonorrhea which his self-insert tortures and murders. That's so utterly backward that for that alone this novel could be read right along with the worst racist literature and fit in comfortably.

You mention the sex but I don't even remember any sex. I only remember rape. Graphic rape with relatively little to do with the plot or the characters. One rape scene occurs "off screen" when its implied that the protagonist rapes a congressman's corpse after murdering him, with the goal of making it look like he was killed by a gay lover, which also adds homophobia to the list of themes presented in this novel.

Finally, one image I recall strongly from this novel, especially now, is a finale in which the protagonist heroically approaches an unarmed, unprotected female politician, shoots her in the face, and heroically strides off into the sunset. All I can think is Jared Lee Loughner probably would love this book, if only it wasn't sold out and hard to find.

Taking all of this into consideration, I find the most atrocious part, perhaps, being that this novel is regularly presented as a must read for gun owners who want to be respected and regarded as responsible people. It's a novel that presents the American gun owning hero as a terrorist, an assassin, a rapist, and a racist, who gets a weird power trip and sense of invincibility from being a gun owner. I'm sorry, but we can do better than that. We can do much, much better than that.
 
That's not just terrorism -- that's Terrorism vs. American Democracy

You lost me at "American Democracy." The United States has never been, and hopefully never will be a democracy. Furthermore, you say the book condones terrorism; you forget that this country was founded by people who were considered terrorists in the eyes of Great Britain. The only difference between a terrorist and a patriot is whose side you're on.

Is Unintended Consequences politically correct? No. Does it contain unsavory scenes of violence, sex, and murder? Sure. That does not nullify its literary value.
 
Yep, the book has some major problems, from my point of view as well.

But it was an early harbinger of the times, and for that alone perhaps, it's still under discussion on a gun board in 2011.

That's not nothing.
 
The prospect of our current cold civil war turning hot should frighten any sane person.

Ross captured some of that, even if in an unintended way, pun intended.
 
There was enough in the book to make me unable recommend it without some big reservations.


  • I agree that when analyzed purely on its literary basis, it suffers. That's OK, and Mr. Ross explains why that is - he never intended it for wide publication. It was a story he said he wrote for friends.
  • It glorifies killing for political purposes in ways that make me very uncomfortable.
  • It contains many references to sex and racial overtones that he could have left out and not detract from the book at all. Left in, they left a bad stain on the story in my mind.

When I see the book parroted as a work that's "required reading" for gun owners, I roll my eyes.


For better reading on the subject of armed rebellion, I'd recommend Jeff Snyder's collection of essays in the book "Nation of Cowards" any day of the week and twice on Sunday. This literary work is on the required reading list for gun owners.
 
Hatchett said:
On a moral level, it's worse, because I can't come up with any reading of this book that doesn't condone terrorism in our own country. The hero assassinates democratically elected officials for political reasons and to frighten other democratically elected officials into surrendering to his demands. That's not just terrorism -- that's Terrorism vs. American Democracy: Terrorism wins, and wins gloriously. This is what the author fantasizes about happening -- not court victories, not democratic victories, not victories in which the villains are exposed and lawfully punished for their crimes, but violent victories through terrorism, particularly featuring himself murdering the people he dislikes most.

Once the "protagonist" took care of the ATF goons who were raiding his friend's house, do you think he could have had a "court victory?" The character did a lot of horrendous things, but as far as he saw it he was in a state of war. Those "democratically elected" officials had violated the Constitution, which they had taken a vow to support.
Some of the things that were done in WW2 were pretty horrendous. I've been told by vets that even enemy soldiers who tried to surrender were sometimes killed if they were unprepared to deal with prisoners; it's even been said they hardly ever took prisoners unless they were specifically sent to obtain them.
Also, keep in mind that the book came out after Ruby Ridge and Waco, two atrocities perpetrated by federal LEOs that cost the lives of people who needn't have died had more intelligent people been in charge. These incidents deeply offended a lot of people and fed the militia movement.
Anyone in the position Ross's character was would not be in a condition to "play nice" with the people he opposed. Yes, what he did was disturbing .... a lot of things done in extremis will naturally be so. Do you think using flamethrowers on Japanese soldiers holed up in caves isn't "disturbing?"
What Ross's character did was certainly disturbing .... fedleos shooting a forteen year old boy in the back is as well, so is shooting a woman while she was holding a baby; both these incidents happened at Ruby Ridge.
Ross intended the book as a warning, IMHO. It would not have been as effective without his character commiting such disturbing, ruthless actions. Anyone in the character's position would have to be ruthless -- utterly ruthless, if he were to have any chance at all at prevailing. And that I think is where the most incredible aspect of the book lies; THAT the character prevailed. In real life it doesn't happen like that. One person able to do all those things -- even with the aid of a handful of compatriots?
No, I sorta don't think so. Any individual incident, maybe. I mean, yeah when agents are equiped with subguns that fire pistol rounds and you have a high powered rifle, you can hit them outside their effective range. But sooner or later Mr. Murphy comes a'knockin'. Or the govt. goons get lucky. OR they find one supervisor who is unusually wily.
For sure there is nothing Ross's hero did I would ever advocate in any normal situation, and not in any situation where legal remedy (such as provided by the county/federal courthouse) was available.
Cicero's warning might have some relevance .... "inter arma enim silent legis." That is, "during war, the law is silent." Because Cicero realized that people engaged in war are desparate to survive, and people in that condition do not play nice.
 
Henry Bowman was certainly a flawed character and such is required for a book to be believable. Are you not tired of so many of Tom Clancy's characters being so perfect? I certainly am.

As far anyone who is disturbed by Bowman's willingness to kill and torture I guess you hate Mitch Rapp of Vince Flynn's novels or Carl Lee killing his daughter's murderers in A Time To Kill.

The portrayal of black women was not positive, but I only remember two and they were both ATF agents. (gonorrhea and the woman who was doing an inspection of Bowman's friend who pointed the gun at him are the only black women that I remember) What ATF agents were portrayed in a good light?

I guess it is not in fashion to be upset about the portrayal of country folk as white trash because no one mentioned being upset about the family raping the girl in the woods. Why? Could it be because it could happen?

And you think a person like Gonorrhea couldn't exist? Upon reflection, the woman who lives diagonally across the street from me could BE Gonorrhea except that she works for a security company instead of the ATF.

Of course these complaints are PC smokescreen for the "big thing", some of us cannot publicly endorse an attempt at harming government officials. Whether it is fear of the moderators, the government or truly being uncomfortable with the idea I know not.

I have no such compunction.

Do I have complaints...sure. Too damned long.
The writing was pretty bad in the beginning but it was so long that he improved as he went.
Bowman's rape and alcoholism were gratuitous and lengthened an already long book...and it was for no useful purpose. The Bonus Army stuff was interesting but not necessary. I could go on but you get the idea.

Sorry for the rambling response...but give me credit...I kept it under 850 pages!!!
 
Henry Bowman was certainly a flawed character and such is required for a book to be believable. Are you not tired of so many of Tom Clancy's characters being so perfect? I certainly am.
I'm sorry. You can believe what you will about many aspects of the book but it is so far from "believable" on so many levels it may as well feature ghosts and dragons. And I never saw any indication that the Bowman character did have any flaws. In fact, he was just amazingly perfect. Never missed a shot. Never made a wrong decision. Never got a bad grade on a high school midterm. Never struck out with a lady. Never lost an argument or a bet or failed to embarrass (or murder) someone he didn't like. Everything fell exactly into place for him as if he had a sextuple-leaved clover branded onto his butt. He was, in fact, a perfect picture of the author himself, only made so much better through the magic of the keyboard. Any perceived "flaws" he has are there because they are shared by the author.

What ATF agents were portrayed in a good light?
It's less that the ATF agents who are black are portrayed badly than that several ATF agents are portrayed badly by making them black women. He used a racist caricature of black women as an insult for people he doesn't like. That's much worse than simply featuring unlikeable black characters.

I guess it is not in fashion to be upset about the portrayal of country folk as white trash because no one mentioned being upset about the family raping the girl in the woods. Why? Could it be because it could happen?
I'd forgotten that scene -- indeed, among the most ridiculous in the book, and another instance of randomly inserting graphic rape and torture and then ridiculously over the top splattergore into a book where it wasn't necessary whatsoever and contributed nothing.

Bowman's rape and alcoholism were gratuitous and lengthened an already long book...and it was for no useful purpose.
These things were indeed the most bizarre part of the book for me as well. They seemed to be the only instances in which the author's self insert wasn't depicted as perfect or as having everything go very well for himself as per his fantasy. This is purely speculation, but from the text I got the distinct impression that these are also aspects of the author's own identity being inserted into the character. This is one thing I can't condemn -- written expression as a form of dealing with one's own problems is something that should never should be taken lightly, but I have to say inserting them into an action packed power fantasy about murdering politicians is disturbing and bizarre at the very least.
 
Actually I did not address the believability of the book, only that a character has to have flaws to be believable.

The book is not believable because it revolves around the premise that a significant number of people have moral courage. That is not something that I have found to be true outside the military.

Bowman was an alcoholic that almost flunked out of school. Hardly what I would call perfection. He was also kind of a dumbass when the AFT came a knocking, not recognizing that his friend (whose name escapes me) was exactly the type of person's house that the ATF would do a no-knock search.

Henry Bowman also had a lot of money but Ross never explained how or why.

I too found the alcoholism and rape to be incongruent with the book. Like you I wondered if the author is familiar with both and wanted to shed some light on them.

Another aspect, which I found wonderful, was that the book is filled with great information. After reading UC I have read much about the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising and the Bonus Army. Ross packed in a bunch of facts that is useful in its own right.

BTW
one of the funniest things I have ever read was depicted during a John Ross interview.

Follow this link and go halfway down to where he is asked about his proudest moment as a writer. I have two words...high larious

http://www.absolutewrite.com/novels/john_ross.htm
 
He used a racist caricature of black women as an insult for people he doesn't like

I do not know how you arrived at this conclusion or what was a "racist caricature".

Understand that if one assumes that I have grown up, I did so in the south. As a youth I attended black churches and to this day I go to at least one family event every year in a 98% black environment. I do not remember anything unbelievable about either black woman that I remember from the book. (perhaps the ATF inspector and Gonorrhea were not the charaters of which you speak. Please remind me of others.)

If you have the time I would appreciate your extrapolation.
 
Wasn't the Bowman character a rape victim too in the novel? It's been a while but what stuck in my memory were the historical fiction recounts of the Bonus Army March, Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, etc. The soap opera of Cindy and Henry got cartoonish at times, but I think that was Ross' intent to carry the reader from one historic vignette to the next.

"Unintended Consequences" ought to be read in the context of its times with the DOJ OPR Ruby Ridge Task Force Report, the Treasury Department Report on Waco, FBI Deputy Assistant Director Danny Coulson "No Heroes" 1999, FBI Report on Project Megiddo (the government's overblown approaches to Y2K and projected millinneal cult uprisings) etc. Especially government expert Henry Ruth's retrospective on the MOVE and Waco sieges.

The novel appears to try to be a warning that if the government's pride of might pushes the wrong people into believing they have nothing left to lose, there would be unintended consequences. Maybe he failed in the eyes of some or succeded in the eyes of some, but it appears to me more like a warning in the vein of Brave New World, Nineteen Eighty-Four or Fahrenheit 451 than a call to arms. (And, yes, those are all much better written than UC.)
 
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