ok 1911 gurus, this question's for you

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Bozwell said:
Not sure what Hondas you're talking about, but Civics don't fit any of the listed criteria. Anyways, the Para 14-45 (http://www.para-usa.com/new/product_pistol.php?id=92) looks to have most of the requested features for just over 1k. If you really want a dual tone gun, you can just Cerakote it down the road.
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Yes sir, I have that one bookmared as well BUT it's already $300 over and that's BEFORE you mess with the paint job and stippling on the front strap.
Back to the car analogy, since it's just funny. I was being sarcastic because as far as I know, there has never been a company that put all those things on because it makes no sense to do so. However it does make sense for them to be on a 1911 and it's been done quite a bit, if you're willing to spend the money. I kinda think the way you threw that out there was a bit far fetched considering the wide array of 1911s out there with tons of mods. The 1911 market has developed so far beyond that old, basic 1911 and that's why I was hoping to get some direction on somewhere to look. Your comparison is like I said "I want a 1911 that's gold-plated, full auto, with a built in scope for a grand" but we both know what I am looking for really isn't that out of the ordinary. Just probably need to keep looking or waiting and I'll find one.
 
The Red Hot Rider said:
+1

If you want all that stuff, then you're not looking at a 1911 anymore. It's like asking for a 1957 Bel Air with overdrive, turbo, fuel injection, CD/MP3 player, and built-in GPS. But that's just my $.02.
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And I respect your opinion, however I addressed that a couple posts down and disagree. Now if you happen to know of a gun, which "resembles a 1911" along the lines of what I'm looking for, I'd be happy to hear all about it. If not, I understand where you're coming from and respectfully disagree sir.
 
JTQ said:
Your requirements are a tough fill for a 1911. Double stacks are not common, rails didn't really appear on them until about 5 years ago, OD green and flat dark earth are not common colors for 1911's, and practically nobody stipples a 1911 front strap.

You used a car analogy earlier. It's as if you are asking for a Honda with a V8, four wheel drive, chrome bumpers, 20 inch tires, and a convertible for less than $25,000. There probably has been, at some time, a Honda with each of those features, but not all at once on the same car, and not for that price.

If you want polymer, the Bul M-5 may come close. Kimber used to import them, and I thought Magnum Research was carrying them, but I couldn't find them on their site. You may be able find out who does have them through Bul.

http://bultransmark.net/BULM5Government.htm
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Oh, I totally, forgot...the Bul has been looked at and is a fine firearm, but doesn't have a tac rail.
 
Well, keep in mind that's MSRP. Shop around and you may be able to beat that price. Stipling and the paint job can always be added later down the road. For that matter, the all black gun has more of a "tacticool" look anyways. ;)

Fact of the matter is though, you're pretty limited in your selection due to the double stack requirement. There just aren't a lot of manufacturers out there making double stacks, probably because a large segment of the market doesn't consider double stacks to be "real" 1911s (as evident from the past few posts, haha). Given that, I'd say your best bet is to get as close as you can to what you want in the initial purchase and then have a smith add any additional features you want to the gun.
 
21Bravo... with all the requirements you insist upon, you've specified yourself into a pretty tight bind... possibly a bit too tight for your reality.

Aside the 1911 design for a moment, let's focus on your stated application and needs... double stack .45 for home defense use and casual shooting. From that standpoint, you've got some awesome modern design choices which meet those needs, readily available, and far under your budget. I like the G21SF myself with it's 14 round capacity. But the grip is a little large for those with smaller hands. I also like the M&P45 a lot, aside from the relatively low 11 round capacity. Perhaps you could go that route for now while you save up for an STI Edge down the road?

Good luck with your endeavor.
 
I'd just like to add that I promise you will be displeased with the results if you go out and buy a ~$1000 gun and slap in a drop in trigger and hammer.

"drop in" parts on 1911s of any flavor are a very sloppy "fit", and most are undersized for the application. I don't know how many times I've had someone come to me showing me their brand new XXXX 1911 that they "upgraded" with some new parts but it just doesn't work right. Drop in triggers slop around in the frame. Drop in hammers don't interact with the stock disconnector and sear consistently or predictably. Drop in grip safeties leave gaps at the frame tangs that can pinch the web of your hand.

In my personal experience, double stack 1911s have feed issues unless you find a combination of ammo and mags that your gun likes. It helps if you reload.

That said, from what you've said you want, you're looking for a full house custom gun for the cost of the parts... There's a lot of work that goes into getting such a mutated beast :)evil:) to run properly, and drop in upgrades can cause all kinds of trouble. If you DO get something with plans to upgrade it, don't do it yourself unless you for sure know what you're doing.

1911tuner on here is the guy you want to talk to, but I still SERIOUSLY doubt you're going to find exactly what you want in a production gun, especially for around or under $1k
 
21Bravo wrote,
we both know what I am looking for really isn't that out of the ordinary.
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I disagree.

Two days and 32 posts in, and nobody has recommended something that fits your requirements. I'm quite sure what you are looking for is pretty far out of the ordinary for a 1911.

I'm not saying somebody isn't going to find something for you, but your expectations for what you can find on a 1911 and for what price are out of the ordinary.
 
because I feel like somehow I've overlooked one.
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Nope you haven't.
Your either going to have to spend more money, do without some of the features you want, add the features yourself or have them done.
 
Bozwell said:
Well, keep in mind that's MSRP. Shop around and you may be able to beat that price. Stipling and the paint job can always be added later down the road. For that matter, the all black gun has more of a "tacticool" look anyways. ;)

Fact of the matter is though, you're pretty limited in your selection due to the double stack requirement. There just aren't a lot of manufacturers out there making double stacks, probably because a large segment of the market doesn't consider double stacks to be "real" 1911s (as evident from the past few posts, haha). Given that, I'd say your best bet is to get as close as you can to what you want in the initial purchase and then have a smith add any additional features you want to the gun.
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Thanks man, I appreciate it and that what I might end up doing should my search come up fruitless.
 
JTQ said:
I disagree.

Two days and 32 posts in, and nobody has recommended something that fits your requirements. I'm quite sure what you are looking for is pretty far out of the ordinary for a 1911.

I'm not saying somebody isn't going to find something for you, but your expectations for what you can find on a 1911 and for what price are out of the ordinary.
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Two days and 32 posts?????? BAAHAHAHAHAHAH Sir, I've been on a lot of forums for a lot of years, not as many or as long as quite a few people, I'm sure...32 posts and 2 days is nothing.:neener:
 
DHart said:
21Bravo... with all the requirements you insist upon, you've specified yourself into a pretty tight bind... possibly a bit too tight for your reality.

Aside the 1911 design for a moment, let's focus on your stated application and needs... double stack .45 for home defense use and casual shooting. From that standpoint, you've got some awesome modern design choices which meet those needs, readily available, and far under your budget. I like the G21SF myself with it's 14 round capacity. But the grip is a little large for those with smaller hands. I also like the M&P45 a lot, aside from the relatively low 11 round capacity. Perhaps you could go that route for now while you save up for an STI Edge down the road?

Good luck with your endeavor.
Click to expand...
I hear ya and that's why I bring my question to the forum: to hear from y'all. I do want a 1911, however, not a Glock. I already have one and it's almost perfect. Did the lil mods myself.
 
Rail Driver said:
I'd just like to add that I promise you will be displeased with the results if you go out and buy a ~$1000 gun and slap in a drop in trigger and hammer.

"drop in" parts on 1911s of any flavor are a very sloppy "fit", and most are undersized for the application. I don't know how many times I've had someone come to me showing me their brand new XXXX 1911 that they "upgraded" with some new parts but it just doesn't work right. Drop in triggers slop around in the frame. Drop in hammers don't interact with the stock disconnector and sear consistently or predictably. Drop in grip safeties leave gaps at the frame tangs that can pinch the web of your hand.

In my personal experience, double stack 1911s have feed issues unless you find a combination of ammo and mags that your gun likes. It helps if you reload.

That said, from what you've said you want, you're looking for a full house custom gun for the cost of the parts... There's a lot of work that goes into getting such a mutated beast :)evil:) to run properly, and drop in upgrades can cause all kinds of trouble. If you DO get something with plans to upgrade it, don't do it yourself unless you for sure know what you're doing.

1911tuner on here is the guy you want to talk to, but I still SERIOUSLY doubt you're going to find exactly what you want in a production gun, especially for around or under $1k
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Thanks so much for your thoughts. I'm not looking to mod a 1911. I want it out of the box that way.
 
Why do you want stippling on the front of the trigger guard? Worthless "feature," IMO.

You don't actually grasp it with your support hand, do you? I thought that was an understood no-no.
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There is a technique that uses the support hand index finger in front of the trigger guard. The Beretta 92F was modified to incorporate a curvature in front of the trigger guard to allow this technique.

As for the OP's question, +1 go with STI if those are the things you want. STI builds some good double-stacks.
 
tuj said:
There is a technique that uses the support hand index finger in front of the trigger guard. The Beretta 92F was modified to incorporate a curvature in front of the trigger guard to allow this technique.

As for the OP's question, +1 go with STI if those are the things you want. STI builds some good double-stacks.
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STI makes one heck of a double stack but they're so far outta my price range they're a no go. Thanks though!
 
The Para models haven't exactly enjoyed a wonderful reputation for quality, nor reliability, over the years, and I'm not sure what the move from Canada to the USA has done for that. If you choose a Para (true with any gun, of course) you'll want to make sure you do exhaustive reliability testing before bringing the gun into your defense rotation. 1911's in general and especially double stack 1911's can be prone to finickiness with regard to magazines, mag springs, ammo brands & bullet profiles, extractor tension. I love 1911's, have or have had about 30 different models of them, and have had quite a few years of working with and tweaking them. That said, my go-to defense guns are not 1911's, primarily because I prefer carrying higher capacity defense weapons.
 
DHart said:
The Para models haven't exactly enjoyed a wonderful reputation for quality, nor reliability, over the years, and I'm not sure what the move from Canada to the USA has done for that. If you choose a Para (true with any gun, of course) you'll want to make sure you do exhaustive reliability testing before bringing the gun into your defense rotation. 1911's in general and especially double stack 1911's can be prone to finickiness with regard to magazines, mag springs, ammo brands & bullet profiles, extractor tension. I love 1911's, have or have had about 30 different models of them, and have had quite a few years of working with and tweaking them. That said, my go-to defense guns are not 1911's, primarily because I prefer carrying higher capacity defense weapons.
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I truly thank you for your post. From my understanding, Paras are a bit overpriced for the quality, as you said, and that's why I'm either hoping to get one on sale or to hear another suggestion entirely for a 1911 (STYLE) pistol. I've done my homework over the last year or so as far as mags, springs and ammo goes, but I'll add extractor tension to my assignment. Thanks again!
 
I agree with JTQ and mavracer.
You have fallen victim to the common Internet Delusion of "I want it and therefore they must make it, and cheap, too." Well, they don't have to make a gun to your tastes. And apparently they don't. You've looked, we've looked (Well, I haven't because one or another poster has already checked all the catalogs and www sites I know of.) and it isn't there.

I think you have three choices:
Pay more.
Get less.
Do some very carefully chosen work on an existing model. I have a FLG that could make a plain vanilla $450 RIA come in at your budget but his type is not common.
 
Jim Watson said:
I agree with JTQ and mavracer.
You have fallen victim to the common Internet Delusion of "I want it and therefore they must make it, and cheap, too." Well, they don't have to make a gun to your tastes. And apparently they don't. You've looked, we've looked (Well, I haven't because one or another poster has already checked all the catalogs and www sites I know of.) and it isn't there.

I think you have three choices:
Pay more.
Get less.
Do some very carefully chosen work on an existing model. I have a FLG that could make a plain vanilla $450 RIA come in at your budget but his type is not common.
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You're right.
 
21Bravo... just for interest sake regarding 1911 double stacks.. this gun started out as a Springfield GI Hi-Cap. I think I paid about $550 for it. new. Then I sent it to John Harrison where we did a lot of upgrades to internal components, mods, and finally re-finished with IonBond. Now I probably have a little more than $2k into it, which I know you don't want to do. However, one possibility for you might be to acquire an SA GI Hi-cap and do some mods to it.

SAHiCap_lft.jpg

SAHiCap_rt.jpg
 
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