Okay, new ethics thread that Art can close. :D

I'll kill anything that can kill me or mine, such as rattlers. I then hang them on the fence so it will bring rain.

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Rattlers only bite when they are threatened. Some of you guys make it seem like coyotes are all out stalking children, and rattlers want to crawl into your boot so they can ambush you. Like I said before, the fact that something has the potential to harm you doesn't mean it wants to, or that it will, or that you should kill it on sight.

You must have a Taurus Judge though, from what I've been reading that is the only gun in existence that will kill a snake. Jeez.

I just read that other ethics thread WOW I ain't even going there, that thing is going into no man's land...

EDIT: I do want to try me some fried rattler though! But I don't have a Judge. Dang.

Get a revolver and use ratshot. My uncle uses them to kill rats that gather around the feed trough with great results. I wouldn't recommend fried rat though, even though my dad argues there's no difference between them and squirrels, lol.

MCgunner said:

It's not the least bit odd to you that someone hates the thought of hunting, doesn't even FISH, claims he buys his meat blessed and killed by a Rabbi or something, and is prodding the crowd on a hunting board with anti-hunting arguments? I don't KNOW, just seems, er, fishy. Seems like a nice guy, just sayin'.....




With some, I'm beginning to wonder.



Yep, it's down to name calling and personal attacks. Art must be asleep. At least now I know that some even think bowfishing is immoral. Weird. Don't turn on the Outdoor Channel. They're killing coyotes, fish, all sorts of stuff on there. Even a show called "predator nation".

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The meat being "blessed" has nothing to do with my choice of kosher meats... I couldn't care less about that. It's about the way in which the animals are killed and processed. In fact, I've lost most of my faith largely to the human condition (sociopathology) of certain people.

Regards to why I'm on a hunting board... because I care and am interested. Am I a troll because I have a heart and an opinion that differs from yours?

I sincerely doubt that Art is asleep.

Guys can wipe out a whole prairie dog town in an afternoon

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Having spent a good share of my childhood shooting prairie dogs in South Dakota on the family ranch, I can assure you you will NOT "wipe out" a prairie dog in an afternoon....or several afternoons...of shooting. Those who only hunbt them infrequently may get that impression, as they DO get SMARTER, and while there may be hundreds of them running around upon your arrival, after an hour or two of constant shooting, theres going to be far fewer sticking their heads up to be blown off......but hit that same twon a week later, and again, you'll see hundreds of them running around again. If shooting them was an actual viable population control method, we wouldn't waste hundreds of dollars annually poisoning them.....it would be much more cost effective to simply let someone come shoot them all....if that could happen, which in reality, it doesn't...or if it does, I've yet to see it firsthand after spending my entire life in prairie rat country

Rattlers only bite when they are threatened. Some of you guys make it seem like coyotes are all out stalking children, and rattlers want to crawl into your boot so they can ambush you. Like I said before, the fact that something has the potential to harm you doesn't mean it wants to, or that it will, or that you should kill it on sight.

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Weedy.....sometimes you have to anticipate things, even if they *might* not happen. I kill rattlers because there are younger kids that play around where I typically find them. What would I do if I let one go and the next day a child is bit and dies right where I had refused to kill the snake the day before? Maybe it isn't common sense....sometimes it seems like it should be, but better safe than sorry in my book. And yes, coyotes have been known to stalk children, and even attack full grown adults.

^^^ I agree whole-heartedly but the other thread that this thread was spun from was about when one is out hunting... far away from homes and playgrounds.

To me, an ethical shot means a "humane" kill. Not necessarily DRT, but that is preferred. By humane, I mean with minimal suffering to the animal. Whether it is a game animal or not; fish, deer, rodent, etc.

Bow hunting is a challenge (and I love it). The humane shot with bow hunting is not a DRT, it never has been, and never will be. The humane shot is one that you can put through the vitals, every time. If I don't trust that I can make the shot, I won't take it.

For me, I will not take a shot further than 35 yards with my bow. Sure, I can hit a vital size target at 40 yards 85% of the time, but there is also the fact that the deer might jump the string and cause even a well aimed shot to not strike exactly where it is aimed, and causing a poor shot to be even worse.

On to prairie dogs, coyotes, and hogs....
This is not so much hunting as it is eradication. That means, that I will expand what I use to do the job, but will still kill as humanely as possible. Baits, traps, stalks, it is all fair game when I am on an eradication "hunt".
For coyotes, it is pretty much a shoot on sight affair, however, I do still have my limits. With my AR, I will not take a shot over 250 yards; with my .270 WSM, that range extends to 450 yards (never taken a shot that distance at a coyote though).
Hogs are also shoot on sight, but I will not "spray and pray" with the AR into a group of them like some people on YouTube do....I actually frown upon it. The only thing worse and more dangerous than a live hog is a wounded and ticked off one.
There is a thread going on about overkill, and my opinion on shooting prairie dogs with centerfire rifles is that it is overkill. However, it is needed. At the ranges they are being shot from, a hit to the vitals is not always guaranteed so a little extra power is needed for a humane kill.
Coyotes, hogs, and prairie dogs are all nuisance animals. They cause a lot of damage and need to be controlled. Coyotes and hogs have no natural predators, so that leaves a lot of work for hunters to do.

I agree whole-heartedly but the other thread that this thread was spun from was about when one is out hunting... far away from homes and playgrounds.

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Sometimes I have killed snakes while hunting as well. For example, when I was quail hunting, my dog all of a sudden froze and wouldn't budge. She has been trained to stay away from snakes and will typically back away but this time she had a covey of quail on point that she didn't want to lose or make a move on. When I caught up with her I saw about a 4 ft rattlesnake in between her and the brush that the quail were using as cover. I knew that I would be coming back to this area when I returned to my vehicle and I didn't want the snake to have another chance to bite myself or my dog so I shot it....and then took a quail from the group when they flew

Regards to why I'm on a hunting board... because I care and am interested.

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JMHO, but I thought that was obvious, Mike, to anyone paying attention. I for one appreciate your input, and hope we're giving you some good stuff to think about.

The humane shot is one that you can put through the vitals, every time. If I don't trust that I can make the shot, I won't take it.

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If there's a "primary principle" for the ethical hunting shot, I'd say that's it. Doesn't mean we can't or won't make mistakes--but it should be important to us that we not make them.

Yes, there's definitely good food for thought here. I've been persuaded to look more into varmint eradication and precisely which animals should be dispatched on-site every time.

If Weedy lost most of his Faith because of people then I contend that he had no Faith to begin with. I have shot 'coons, prairie dogs, coyotes, carp and crows. While this may be pest control I consider it hunting. I took a weapon and went out searching for the animal.

Maybe we should all go over to the G&L forums and start bashing same sex marriages. All in good taste of course.

^^^ The lost faith remarks are mine, not Weedy's. I shouldn't have brought it up but, yes, it's mostly people that weakened it... and the cruelty of nature. I'm not going to derail this thread any more with my philosophy (if you can call it that) on the matter.

And, for your information, I'm not gay, not an activist of any kind, and am not against hunting... not in the least. If you'd care to read my posts you'll see that I'm only against hunting for sole sake of the kill and when less than ideal methods are used which increase the animal's suffering.

Mike1234567 said:

^^^ The lost faith remarks are mine, not Weedy's. I shouldn't have brought it up but, yes, it's mostly people that weakened it... and the cruelty of nature. I'm not going to derail this thread any more with my philosophy (if you can call it that) on the matter.

And, for your information, I'm not gay, not an activist of any kind, and am not against hunting... not in the least. If you'd care to read my posts you'll see that I'm only against hunting for sole sake of the kill and when less than ideal methods are used which increase the animal's suffering.

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Mike, your opinions are very much appreciated, by myself at least. If we do not question our actions and our motives from time to time, then we can very easily go off of the deep end without realizing it. The questions about killing just to kill got me rethinking how (and why) I "hunt" some of the animals that I do, but I have been able to justify within myself my means and my reasons and none of them are just for the sake of the kill. That being said, I am confident that what I am doing is helping to have a positive impact on conservation and the environment that we live in, and, as a hunter, that is my ultimate goal.

allaroundhunter said:

Mike, your opinions are very much appreciated, by myself at least. If we do not question our actions and our motives from time to time, then we can very easily go off of the deep end without realizing it. The questions about killing just to kill got me rethinking how (and why) I "hunt" some of the animals that I do, but I have been able to justify within myself my means and my reasons and none of them are just for the sake of the kill. That being said, I am confident that what I am doing is helping to have a positive impact on conservation and the environment that we live in, and, as a hunter, that is my ultimate goal.

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As human beings no one can ask for more than that. BTW, my ancesters on both sides were either farmers or ranchers and did their fair share of hunting. It was my maternal grandfather who taught me his beliefs about ethical hunting. We never went hunting together because I was either too young or he ws too ill but he spoke about it often.

allaroundhunter said:

Weedy.....sometimes you have to anticipate things, even if they *might* not happen. I kill rattlers because there are younger kids that play around where I typically find them. What would I do if I let one go and the next day a child is bit and dies right where I had refused to kill the snake the day before? Maybe it isn't common sense....sometimes it seems like it should be, but better safe than sorry in my book. And yes, coyotes have been known to stalk children, and even attack full grown adults.

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That's what I'm talking about. Kids and pets are prone to be harmed on encounters with rattlers. Coyotes have nabbed a friend of mine's terrier from his beach camp too.

Weedy said:

You must have a Taurus Judge though, from what I've been reading that is the only gun in existence that will kill a snake. Jeez.

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Nah, no judge, too pricey for me. I'll kill them with anything at my disposal from a boot, stick, truck, shotgun, .22, snake charmer, gasoline, machete... These have all worked well in the past...one time we had one in the flower beds surrounded by baseball size stones, a few rounds from my beretta 96fs centurion turned those stones into fragmentary explosive devices to kill the snake. It was the least I could do to protect my kittens whose mama had the snake hypnotized! Lol

I think the problem here is the confusion of what the definition of a hunter really is. Here's my two cents..........

To me, a Hunter is someone who uses skill, to quickly and humanely put down an animal. It may be for meat, it may be for sport, the majority of the time it is both. To a hunter the thrill is not in the kill but in the hunt, or in the meal the hunt has provided. A true Hunter has respect for their quarry even when hunting for subsistence and/or when the quarry can also hunt the hunter. They feel bad about wounding and not recovering game and would rather have a clean miss than wound. A shooter is someone that kills just for the thrill of shooting and killing something. Many times skill is not involved, and there is little or no respect for the quarry. Recovering the game animal is not near as important as getting off the shot, even if it's a poor and low percentage type shot. To a shooter, wounding and loosing an animal is still better than missin'.

Those folks that shoot/hunt animals just to watch them suffer a long and painful death, regardless of the animal are sick...plain and simple. Those that brag about gut shootin' animals so they can crawl off into the brush and suffer are even lower than that.

MCgunner... I'm not against killing prairie dogs if their burrows are harming one's cattle or doing other damage. If you don't understand my position on the subject yet then I don't think any number of words will change that.

Me too, MC. I'm trying to understand you as well. I think you're a decent guy. I just don't agree with some of your hunting ideals. If we banter back-and-forth enough then maybe one of us will cave in.

*hint* It won't be me.