Learn Krav Maga vs. a CCW permit?

Why not do both?

It is not an either/or. Guns are distance weapons. It is hard to shoot your way out of a full nelson or punch a man with a rifle when he is shooting at you from across the street. Learn to fight at all ranges from wrestling to rifles.

Inebriated said:

Why not do both?

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Indeed.
I don't think one precludes the other.

I just grew a Chuck Norris beard. I figure I'm all set.

Maybe truly effective disarming/defensive fighting requires years, and some of us are middle-aged.

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"Middle aged" is your mindset. However, it dont matter what you learn or train in there will be someone out there that can effectively wipe the floor with you. Course the chances of all the variables coming together in one situation are between slim and none. Its always better to be prepared.

I watched a Chuck Norris movie during my stay at a Holiday Inn Express. I'm good to go... Nah, really, one should work toward physical fitness as well and fight training is a very entertaining way to do it. Plus you get the benefit of self confidence.


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It is a good idea to learn at least a few moves in the event one is caught at less than arms length. However, most of us simply do not have the time or willpower to do very much in this regard.

I heard a story once in ER about a guy that came in after grabbing an old guy from behind. He lifted the guy off the ground to throw him down and rob him. It might have worked, but the mugger made the mistake of putting his hand over the old guys mouth to keep him quiet.

I believe they said his nickname in jail after that was something like "nine-fingers Nick"

Might have been Apocryphal, but sorta hope not.

Knowing a martial art buys you time in order to employ (or if necessary, get to) your firearm.

I wouldn't want to bring a knife to a gunfight.

I certainly wouldn't want to bring only my fists.

Situational awareness is key to most situations.
If u can avoid situations or discourage threats early
good for you.

Martial Arts are good training for that.

( the NYC LEO shooting of the knife-wielder is a good proof that agencies
need to train that more than actually using their guns.)

Mp7 said:

Situational awareness is key to most situations.

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Exactly.

Situational awareness is key to most situations.
If u can avoid situations or discourage threats early
good for you.

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^^^^ +1

Jim

Also consider this - what if you get in a car accident (or similar) and have temporary or permanent physical problems? If you only learned a martial art, you might be unable to use it. Using a pistol is something that the elderly, the young, the healthy, the infirm, etc... can use with proper training and accommodation. It's not fun to think that something could happen that could render you unable to walk or use both hands or move swiftly, but bad things happen every day.

As others have said - do both. Why limit yourself?

I'm not much of a fighter. Pretty much all of the hand-to-hand I know is geared to......buy me time to pull my gun.

Ignition Override said:

For those with training in neither, wouldn't actual self-defense (Not karate katas) allow a response for when it is too late to pull out a concealed handgun? Maybe truly effective disarming/defensive fighting requires years, and some of us are middle-aged.

My impression is that people are often approached or attacked from a blind spot. Even from the front they might prefer to hide their intentions. If this is not worth discussion, then please delete the question.

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There is no '.vs.' kemosabe to Krav Maga and CCW.

They complement each other.

Get a CCW and take Krav Maga.

Deaf

Never heard of Krav Whatzit. Did martial arts in my twenties. I no longer have any patience for dojos, senseis, et al. I guard against blind spot attacks by employing situational awareness, escape and elude if one seems imminent, and draw the weapon only if all else fails.

I wouldn't want to bring a knife to a gunfight.

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Only because you haven't recieved a proper education on the matter.

There are times where a knife would be more ideal than a gun. Do some force on force training with an airsoft pistol and a training knife and it will be obvious.

For those with training in neither, wouldn't actual self-defense (Not karate katas) allow a response for when it is too late to pull out a concealed handgun?

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Yes, absolutely. Ignore all of the "don't bring a knife to a gunfight" and "if I have my gun I automatically win" nonsense.

A great many people, who thought they had the upper hand because of their gun, have had their gun taken away and shoved up their a**, figuratively, by those who know better.

Fillipino Kali, Krav Maga, Systema, and other fighting systems address how to liberate others of guns, knives, or whatever else is in their hand supposedly giving them the upper hand. Although, the Kali guys might just snap the arm in half, that is holding the gun...

Edited to add:

...But the mixed martial arts expert from Des Plaines insists it was his “training,” not brawn, that allowed him to wrench a loaded pistol from the hand of an alleged mugger who had the weapon pointed at his chest Friday night on the Southwest Side...

http://www.suntimes.com/9261611-417/mugger-chooses-wrong-victim-mma-fighter.html

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We have a fellow who posts frequently on the Bladeforums "Practical tactical" section that essentially pushes this idea; that in a typical self-defense situation, it's quicker and more effective to use "force on force" (that is, unarmed technique) to gain time/distance to allow you to deploy your weapon of choice.
I tend to agree. With most confrontations, action starts with someone striking or grabbing... Either of which makes producing one's weapon more problematic. The instant response provided by practical martial training can either end the confrontation or sufficiently distance one to allow using the weapon. (mere production of which might end the situation)
As to Krav Maga, it's an Israeli synthesized style that originated back in the 40s. It's a very practical method that emphasizes simultaneous blocks and strikes, and the strikes tend to be very much in the realm of maximum force applied to the weakest target....
Strictly a self-defense form; no pretty colored belts or gentlemanly competitions.

Well, the down side to martial arts is that it generally takes much more time and effort to reach effective competence than it does to become a competent shooter. Also, training or not, size and strength still play a huge role.

Still, no reason not to do both.

I've had my TX CHL (Concealed Handgun License) through two renewals now.

After my Heart Surgery in '09, I and a couple of "old guy" friends took a 13-week (3+ hours/week) training course in Krav Maga.

1.) As mentioned, up-close combat training is for use when either your situational awareness or your gun have failed to take care of the situation (the firearm is, of course, to keep them from getting close enough to use the hand-to-hand stuff).

2.) As implied above, Krav Maga is a set of defense strategies and mind-sets and is not a "martial art" or a competition.

I think the training was great and can be used by people who are physically less than perfect for whatever reason.

Do both and not necessarily at different times.

Best,

Will

Bruce Lee owned several firearms and so does Chuck Norris. Trust me, if those guys need firearms after their extensive training, you do too.