Who uses a Pistol Grip ONLY?

Fred, I'd rather have a PGO shotgun than that lefty-death-trap.

in defense of the pistol grip shotgun. it is NOT meant to be held up like a pistol and fired. that would be insane. it is meant to be held low
belly high. one hand on the pistol grip the other on the top of barrel
a foot or so back from the end of barrel. to steady and control
a shot gun is not a rifle, you do not "aim" it. It is "pointed" at its intended target.
shooting at your boogie man across the bedroom is only 20 ft MAX
more than likely 10 or 15 ft.
point and shoot. it can be done with sleep in your eyes

would i go hunting with it, he)( no. its no good for that. i have other guns for that.

its a close quarter, man killer only. not good for anything else
this was just my humble opinion, not meaning to be arguemenative

Wow odorf...the whole "you don't aim a shotgun, you point it" generally has to do more with the fact that wing shooters use a well fit shotgun to point towards the target. PGO shotguns are not well fit.

At 5 yards, the shotgun blast will probably only spread maybe 3-5", depending on barrel length, choke, wad, and other factors. You still need to get very close in order to score hits with any pellets, and need a good solid hit to hit with all of the pellets.

There's a reason pretty much every patrol car in the US has a stocked, short-barrelled, pump 12ga shotgun mounted inside instead of a pistol-gripped one - because they are much easier to use effectively.

The pistol-gripped full-length stocks are gaining popularity, I suspect riding the ARs coattails. I can see some real advantages to these, especially if I need to move while using my left hand for other things. They can be shoulder-fired or hip-fired using the same techniques as a standard riot gun, and retain the balance of one.

I'll report back when I get mine out to shoot.

in defense of the pistol grip shotgun. it is NOT meant to be held up like a pistol and fired. that would be insane. it is meant to be held low belly high. one hand on the pistol grip the other on the top of barrel a foot or so back from the end of barrel. to steady and control a shot gun is not a rifle, you do not "aim" it. It is "pointed" at its intended target. shooting at your boogie man across the bedroom is only 20 ft MAX more than likely 10 or 15 ft. point and shoot. it can be done with sleep in your eyes.

would i go hunting with it, he)( no. its no good for that. i have other guns for that.

its a close quarter, man killer only. not good for anything else this was just my humble opinion, not meaning to be arguemenative

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Have you attempted to shoot one at eye level? I found that not only is it not dangerous to do so but you don't even necessarily need two hands, even with buck or slugs.

Eye or shoulder level fire is the way to go with PGO.

Those advocating the SBS over the standard shotgun for compact, I have to ask: Is a 10" shotgun with a stock going to be more compact than an 18.5" PGO without? What about the Super Shorty which has both a short barrel and no stock?

I'm speaking specifically from the idea of portability/concealability. The PGO has THAT going for it.

My 12.5" barrel 870 with short Hogue stock isn't much longer than an 18.5" PGO, and worlds easier to shoot.

If it weren't for legal restrictions I'm guessing you wouldn't see many PGOs *unless* they were on really short barrelled breaching type guns like the Serbu.

Finally, someone that likes a pistol grip. So your saying that a pistol grip is actually manageable and that you can actually get hits with it? I see alot of people that are really accurate with them, but then again I won't really get time to practice as much as they probably do.

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I don't know about "like", but I wanted to see for myself if they were as bad as usually depicted, the answer to that is "not necessarily", though as has been said many times there's not much a shoulder stock doesn't do better.

Well, one of my Remington 870s has the LE top-folding stock on it. I mainly have it because it's as legally close (non SBS barrel length) to the couple of 870s I carried in the Marines on a couple occasions when I was on barracks duty. Have I shot it with the stock folded and using the pistol grip? Yup. Can I say that this method sucks? Yup! It's great for compact storage but that's about it. Around the house, I always keep the stock unfolded and it's a rare event I ever fire it with it folded. Yeah, it sucks that bad!!!
I know there is a lot of hatered towards the Remington LE folding stock as well but either I got a pretty well made one or I manage some technique oddly enough that I haven't found it uncomfortable to shoot so I don't know what the problems others have with this stock. Really though, if you want to find out first hand why PGO stocks are widely shunned, try a folder be it a Remington LE, Choate side folder or something similar. This way you can see for yourself why they are not well liked yet you still have a buttstock that does work well yet allows you to keep it in more compact spaces.
In all honesty though, that is the only folding shotgun stock I have. While it's still quite serviceable, I just prefer the traditional stocks when it comes to shotguns.

Glockedout17 said:

Finally, someone that likes a pistol grip. So your saying that a pistol grip is actually manageable and that you can actually get hits with it?

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I have no problem with mine. It's not as hard to do as some claim, and it isn't going to break your wrist either. Use two hands.

To odorf I would advise rethinking your home defense plan if I were you and I am not talking about weapons but if you shoot a intruder in the back, you will most likely spend jail time. remember all we care about is eliminating the threat if the intruder is running away the threat has been eliminated. No further action needed.
To op look through the fighting shotgun thread.

One thing I avoid doing when shooting a PGO is shooting from the hip, as not only is it very difficult to be accurate but it seems to cost you a lot in terms of alignment and the ability to use muscle tension when using a more vertically oriented pistol grip.

A bird's head or cut down regular stock would probably work better for hip shooting, though at the price of not being as good to shoot at eye or shoulder level.

I put a Choate pistol grip (like 25 bucks from midwayusa) on my single shot H&R pardner 410 back when I was younger and dumber. I was on some lean times financially and it was all i had for home defense. At the time i figured it would make the gun more handy and most home defense scenarios are probably going to happen at spitting distances anyway. It had pretty mild recoil being a 410, probably wouldn't be much fun to shoot in bigger gauges though.

I have other guns now, and i have something much more effective for home defense but i still like to take out the pardner for fun. Ill admit a pistol grip 410 serves no practical purpose but it sure is a fun range toy.

I only fooled around with a PGO once, and that was more than enough for me. The web and heel of my right hand was sore for a day or two afterward. I'm not generally recoil-sensitive, and can bang away for hundreds of rounds with 10mm or .357 handguns, or from shoulder-fired 12 gauges without much complaint. Maybe I was doing it wrong, but that PGO hurt.

Fred, I'd rather have a PGO shotgun than that lefty-death-trap.

It's very clearly labeled with a warning not to fire it from the left shoulder...

I bought a PG for my first 870 thinking that having the option to swap out the stock would give me a short gun better for HD. Of course, after half a box of target load shells, that puppy was off and I put the stock back on it.

I have gravitated toward full stocks and wood furniture. The old Ithaca 37 DSPS is my go to gun, and it's stock as it came from the factory back in the 60's.

I would say that if you HAVE to have a shorter shotgun, just get an adjustable AR style of stock. At least then you have SOMETHING to put against your shoulder if you need to fire a Shortie. I rather like my AR stock on my, well, AR simply because it packs smaller if I don't want to lug around the full case. Plus .223 isn't that punishing even if your arm is "too bent" with a short stock.

Never really cared for them on the 12 gauge, but if I felt the NEED, that's the way I would go.

GlockedOut17,

Last time I checked, most pistol grips aren't terribly expensive. I'd just buy one, try it out, and decide for yourself. If you don't like it, you can always put the old stock back on. There are some things that deep down, we know are probably a bad idea, but we still just have try it out.

I know when I first started shooting shotguns, I was told to pull the gun into my shoulder when shooting it. It worked all right. Over the summer, I took a shotgun class, and the instructor recommended "stretching" the gun - pushing forward with your forward hand, and pulling with your rear hand. It definitely reduced the amount of recoil, and I think that using this same technique with a PGO shotgun might yield better results than trying to shoot from the hip or anchoring it against your shoulder.

Chris "the Kayak-Man" Johnson

If you decide to try it out, I would strongly suggest picking up a shot timer to take with you. That way you can quantify your practice session to see how long it takes you to complete a particular action.

If you really want to quantify it, take both the PG and the regular stock with you, switch them out while at the range. Run the same drills and record the times off of your shot timer. I suspect you'll be fairly surprised at the results.

Fred Fuller said:

How do you guys present a full stock in a home defense situation? How do do you maneuver through doors and how do you search corners?

Simple - I let the dogs (two Fila Brasileiros and a Brittany) do the searching part . Meanwhile I'm behind the bed opposite the bedroom door with my back against the wall, with the 'house gun' pointed at the door.

Training is the answer to most "how do..." questions. A good fighting shotgun class will address moving in structures with a shotgun. The NRA's Personal Protection In The Home class is IMHO the gold standard basic guide to home defense, even though this class emphasizes handguns rather than shotguns. It teaches hunkering down with a firearm and a phone, rather than going forth and looking for trouble. Folks I know who do house clearing for a living consider solo efforts in house clearing suicidal. I don't generally argue with people who know more than I do.

The big thing is KNOWING whether there really are intruders, or if the noise that woke you up was just the cat knocking over something. And the answer to that is that security comes in layers. Make sure no one can get into your home without raising a ruckus, and then you won't have to worry about whether it was the cat, or some latter day Charles Manson crew that made that noise.

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Only when I was young and ignorant did I keep my shotgun with a pistol grip. It is much better to have a stock on it. Fred is correct regarding training to learn how to use it. Yes, the training will cost as much if not more than the shotgun but it is well with it. Own few guns and take as much training as you can. Much better than many guns a little training.

Alsoplustoo - lots more fun on a 20 gauge or 16 gauge shotgun than the 12 gauge...

(which is why my sawed-off double barrel with a birdshead grip is a 16 gauge)

Keep your whole hand tight to the grip, not just your fingers, take out any slack.

Also use more forward muscle tension with your lead hand.

Shotguns kick hard, but barring crazy loads or lightweight guns, its more of a heavy push than a snappy punch.

As long as you have good slignment, properly applied muscle tension and the gun does't have a running start to smack you with, then nothing should be battered or sore.

Pho

is "pointed" at its intended target. shooting at your boogie man across the bedroom is only 20 ft MAX more than likely 10 or 15 ft. point and shoot. it can be done with

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Tweny feet is less than seven yards. Fifteen feet is five yards.
The standard figures of shotgun pattern are that a FC pattern will open at one inch per yard. A cylinder choke will be about twice that.
Using modern loads, we often find that patterns will be tighter yet than those figures show.
So.....that shotgun that is being pointed from the hip under a stressful and maybe not fully awake condition is going to throw a pattern that - in the situations cited - is about one foot wide at best and may be smaller than five inches if the gun is choked.
You don't think that a miss is possible from an unaimed gun?

Shotguns kick hard, but barring crazy loads or lightweight guns

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A PGO is a lightweight gun.
Pete