Glock, Ruger, or S&W?

Yeah. A fair number do use them -- they are really good shooting guns. That's why it bugs me so bad to have such distrust for them. When they're bad...they're rotten, and S&W seems willing to "fix" them over and over no matter how many times they still don't work.

Wow. That's the first I've heard of this regarding M&Ps. Mine have been 100% reliable over a few thousand rounds. I've only ever heard they are extremely/Glock like reliable.p

Do these issues extend to the Shield as well?

The only difference between the M&Ps and the Glocks is that when and M&P fails it isn't "ammo related". Mine has well over 10,000 rounds through it. Most of them my own reloads. I upgraded the trigger around 8000 rounds because I wanted a more positive trigger and I felt like the trigger had gotten a bit soft. Mine still shoots, looks, and feels like new. It is hands down the best pistol I've ever had experience with.

Between Glock and M&P, it's a personal preference issue.

Can't comment much on theSR9. I never considered it, since I don't want manual firing inhibiting devices on my pistol.

breakingcontact said:

Wow. That's the first I've heard of this regarding M&Ps. Mine have been 100% reliable over a few thousand rounds. I've only ever heard they are extremely/Glock like reliable.p

Do these issues extend to the Shield as well?

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Same here.

My Shield has been fine.

Honestly, I have no idea on the Shield. I've not seen any show up on the competition field, and they haven't been out long enough to develop so substantial a reputation.

Further, having one be reliable for "a few thousand rounds" means something to some people that it doesn't quit mean to others. Some of the folks having repeated problems, and with repeated guns, are approaching 20K rounds a year, so a problem that only starts happening after a few thousand rounds, or recurs every few thousand rounds, would be a real big problem for them.

Right. Of course you're seeing a larger sample size and a larger amount of rounds fired. Just surprises me as this is the first I've heard of any issues with the M&Ps except some 9mm full size guns having accuracy issues.

Glock 26
Ruger sr9c
S&W M&P9c

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I would chose the Glock soley becuase I already own several Glock pistols and I am familiar and comfortable with their operation and handling. That's not to say I think Glocks are necessarily better than the Ruger or S&W models you listed. I probably would not feel particularly disadvantaged with either one, once I had a chance to put a few hundred rounds them them.

Of those choices I would take the Ruger SR9c. I have fired a box through each of these and have owned a S&W M&P 40 full size (now a 357 Sig). I liked the Ruger most of all but I also liked the others in various ways. For concealment you can't beat the Glock 26. But, it does push your hand around and trying to shoot a double tap would be tough. (In many cases with 9mm, a double tap seems to be recommended.) The M&P has more of a kick than the Ruger. The Ruger has a very good balance to it. You could easily do a double tap with the Ruger.

But I would strongly recommend a Ruger SR40C. I have been shooting mine for about a year and like it as much as ever. It has only a moderate recoil. It is exactly the same size as the SR9c and the specs say it is the same weight. I bought the SR40c without trying it first. (One was not available.) I trusted Ruger to make it well-balanced. It handles well and has the same good trigger as the SR9c. At present I carry it daily.

You can also get the Glock in 40 instead of 9 mm at about the same size as the 26. But the recoil may be a problem. But then I also recommend you consider the Glock 30 (.45 ACP) through which I have fired a box and which is about the same size as the Rugers SR9c and SR40c. I did well with the Glock 30. Its recoil was the same as my MP 357 Sig (strong and sharp but not unmanageable.) I don't think a rapid double tap is required with the .40 or .45 but you could add a couple more shots with deliberation.

I once heard a local cop drive his car with the siren to a house two blocks away at 5 am and then fire a double tap at the instant the siren stopped. I learned later he killed a dog as he responded to a domestic disturbance call. Obviously he had been trained to do a double tap with his 9 mm.

Surely, I've seen many M&Ps run for whole matches and seen buddies' guns run for months without a problem. I'm not trying to say it is a bad gun at all or shouldn't be trusted, exactly.

I've just seen a number of them go down and not be fixable, apparently, or at least cause their owners a lot of heartburn -- to include multiple guys dropping out of big matches halfway through because their box-stock gun just quit working. Considering the cost and effort of attending big matches, and the emotional investment of trying your best and being black flagged by a bum gun, that's enough to scare a comp. shooter pretty bad.

Yeah. A fair number do use them -- they are really good shooting guns. That's why it bugs me so bad to have such distrust for them.

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Just out of curiosity. What class are you mostly seeing this in? SSP would be more concerning than CDP, if you know what Im saying.

I would say glock I own a g26 and g19 and they are on my never sell list, you just cant make them fail. I also don't like external safeties , but I would not hesitate to own another ruger product because there customer service rocks. That said buy what fits you, for me glock just feels right.

rcmodel said:

Of the three, I would take a Springfield XD.

rc

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A little warning next time, OK?

Do you know how difficult it is to clean Dr. Pepper off my laptop screen and keyboard?

Just out of curiosity. What class are you mostly seeing this in? SSP would be more concerning than CDP, if you know what Im saying.

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SSP. I don't see many .45 M&Ps come through (except of course when Olhasso won Nationals CDP class with one in '08). These are predominately full-size 9mm M&Ps, and most are the Pros, if I'm seeing it right.

I looked at the exact same pistols and chose the ruger sr9c. I WANTED a thumb safety and if the mag disconnect is an issue, just take it out. The LCI is a non issue. It can't harm anything if it malfunctions. Worst case scinerio, it gets stuck up. Who cares? The gun is always treated as loads anyway. And, if you don't like the thumb safety don't engage it. It's got a pretty secure positive lock and I've never had mine accidentally engage or disengage.

I chose the ruger because 1) it fits in my hand beautifully. 2)the trigger is FANTASTIC(way better than the glock or any other IMO. Of course these are very personal prefs). 3) the ability to make the weapon quickly serviceable but very safe in an environment full of kids by taking advantage of the safety features. If you train with the thumb safety, it is a non-issue.


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Sam1911 said:

A magazine disconnect is awful in competition as you cannot unload and show clear -- and then drop the hammer -- without reinserting a magazine first, which is a total hassle and has to be explained to the SOs each time. You've got to keep an extra, empty magazine on hand to do that with as no SO is going to let you insert a loaded mag after your "show clear" step. Just a pain in the butt. We do deal with it with the Hi-Powers and a few other guns that come with mag safeties, but it is awkward complexity for no good purpose.

As far as a loaded chamber flag? That's really just an eyesore more than anything else, but like any other mechanical device, the more moving parts, the more stuff there is to break or get fouled somehow.

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Thanks for that explanation, Sam. Makes sense that the gun wouldn't be optimal for competition, but the the mag disconnect has never affected me for my use of the gun.

I've heard others mention the same concerns about the LCI, but at this point I think the gun has proven itself totally reliable, even with the extra stuff.

Teachu2 said:

They aren't revolvers...

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S&W has been making semi-autos for quite a while. A quick browse through my Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson shows a .35 caliber (rim fire apparently) model 1913 semi auto. -- which, started production in 1913 (maybe that was obvious, but I include it for clarity).

Having said that - I don't totally agree with the notion that S&W's best days are behind them. I am a fan of the now defunct 3rd Gen semi autos, and I really don't care for the Sigma or M&P semiautos, but I'll put my MIM 686-6 plus up against any of my other pre lock, pre MIM S&W revolvers any day.

G26. Seems to work just fine for me since they came out. Parts are fairly cheap and available (pre panic). I always seemed to shoot the subcompact's much better than their bigger brothers.

The Ruger definitely has the best trigger of the three.

I would say M&P 9c
Because of magazine capacity and the wonderful ergos. I like the Glocks too, but prefer the M&P for real estate on the grip. The M&Ps are very accurate and extremely reliable. Now if this was a contest between M&P 9c and Glock 19... Little different there. Glock all day long.
I can't say much for the Rugers except that I don't care for the way they feel.
You should choose whatever feels better to you.
AND MAKE SURE YOU GET THE NO EXTERNAL SAFETY VERSION OF THE M&P
I hate safeties on striker fired guns.

easyg's Post # 70

That is the gun I bought yesterday. It fits my hand and I expect to be my new carry gun.

Glock 26 vs Kahr CW9 vs Ruger LC9 vs Kimber Ultra Carry II

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt3jtMCyjP8

You may want to throw the Kahr CW9 in the mix after watching it outshoot all 3 of the others..

G26; no contest, IMO. I never liked Glocks, and I wanted to dislike them even more because of all the fanboys. Then I finally tried one. Now I own a G19, and am looking forward to adding a G26, G34, and possibly a G30.

ETA: People seem to be claiming the SR9c has the best trigger of the three. IMO, the Glock has the best, and the M&P has the worst.

Glock... Because aftermarket parts, easy to conceal carry, accurate and reliable in darn near any condition.