A Piece of my Psych Homework: Why It's Not Guns Or Media, It's Raising Your Kids.

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Rocketmedic

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Children mimic what they have seen (as proven by Dr. Bandera). However, the argument that violence is to blame for the perceived "spike" in violence ignores many other factors in society and how we raise children and unfairly blames media. Dr. Bandera demonstrated that young children will copy what they have remotely viewed, often without fear of consequence, because they have never seen the behavior (or its consequences) before. Others argue that the steady increase in 'violence' in popular culture and the media is responsible for the actions of the mentally ill, or even that their medications are inducing them to kill. Still others blame the lack of consequences for actions, poverty, or simply absentee or ineffective parenting. All of these things are factors, none are responsible for any increase in violence alone.

Let's look at autism, Asperger's, and mental health. I am an Aspie- I exhibit many of the hallmarks of Asperger's, I often do not consider the impact of my words before I say them, and I am quite blunt. However, just like every other non-retarded person alive, I retain a moral compass, and since I was not raised as a feral animal, that moral compass is aligned with the morals of society as a whole. Most of the villains of mass shootings- Adam Lanza, James Holmes, Jared Loughner, and that Korean guy from Virginia Tech- were also linked to Asperger's, along with hosts of other mental illnesses. They were all intelligent men, young, with plenty of textbook knowledge and classic "nerd" traits- introverted, non-sociable, successful within their applications but easily frustrated and unsuccessful outside of their own bubbles. They all had functioning moral compasses, aligned with society- indeed, they were nearly model citizens until they reached adulthood. Their stories are eerily similar- success until they were confronted with adversity, met with mass murder of innocents. Now let's look at how we were told they were raised.

By all accounts, these people were raised with the best ideals of the 1990s. They were encouraged to study independently, were not forced to participate in team sports or allowed to interact with others, and were sheltered from reality. In the words of the fictional police officer Terry Hoitz, "life gets loud sometimes", and these children were wearing earmuffs put on of their own free will and allowed to remain attached by their parents. They were not socialized much with other children, often on the grounds of being autistic, 'special' or 'gifted'. They were outsiders. For recreation, it is known that at least some of these children turned to video games at an early age, with a natural preponderance of male-oriented violent games (simply put, no one buys lame games). This is the cited cause of violence by exposure to animated violence by interest groups with need of a target to blame- the NRA, for instance, blames mass shootings on constant exposure to violent games, with many of its members citing causes as diverse as medication and (lack of) religious fervor. However, they ignore a fundamental truth- society has become less violent, not more.

A child growing up in the 1950s knew death and violence from war stories of fathers, uncles, brothers and friends. They saw death up-close with the losses of their peers from accidents and disease. A child growing up in the 1960s saw their peers pulled into the Vietnam War and saw social evils up close. Children in the 1970s and 1980s were for the first time exposed to readily-available child-oriented violence on an uncontrollable basis, but they were also allowed to play and interact "for real", with rock fights, BB-gun wars and real, physical consequences linked to actions. Even today, we can look at the childhood of a criminal like Adam Lanza and compare it to a wholesome citizen such as myself and see some massive differences- I was allowed, encouraged, and sometimes forced to interact with real people and participate in society. Many of these people were treated in the opposite way.

America today has attempted to renounce violence on a national level. We have adopted asinine and inflexible "zero-tolerance" policies and actively dissuade our childen from play, violence and even violent sports in many parts of the country. We diagnose children from a young age with an ever-broadening list of psychiatric conditions, medicate them, and then protect them from society and maturity, but we give them access to the trappings of adulthood- independence, vehicles, weapons. We never let them learn that hitting people gets painful for the assailant as well, and we pretend to be surprised by their violence. They know better, yes, but when confronted with adversity, these people are children with the bodies and tools of men and the intellect of a techician without context for action.

Children are quite good at learning, and media is a very effective teacher. Immersive media teaches people how to do quite a few things that classroom lectures cannot- this is why pilots, the military and police use simulators for training. Nearly identical simulations are sold and marketed to the public as violent, immersive, and hyper-popular video games. I personally have learned more about conventional warfare, tactics, military techniques and even ethics from video games than the military. That is with me as an adult. As a child with no exterior context of violence, it is nearly a foregone conclusion that they will be able to learn to act violently with effectiveness. When coupled with easy-to-use firearms that children (and adults) instinctively know how to operate, with 'training' from early childhood with those tools, it is hardly a surprise that their use will be more effective- we can see the same thing in high school sports, where young athletes who have played hundreds of hours of Madden football are 'better' at football tactics and strategy than even veteran football players (see the increased rates of ascending rookie players to the elite ranks of the NFL, as opposed to twenty years ago). The thing that media cannot effectively impart is real-world consequences. A linebacker can learn to read and tackle an opposing player with Madden, but only getting hit can teach him to play the real game. Punching a peer in school, an act demonized as bullying, will eventually result in real consequences.

Media is effective at teaching. Without real life to impart context, that knowledge can be dangerous. The current perceived 'epidemic' in violence is a result of children being sheltered from real life while being trained to kill and able to access weapons. These things happened years ago, yes, but they were far rarer because most of those children who were "borderline" were taught that violence has real-life consequences. Without those formative years of play (and yes, real) fights, social interaction and socialization, we are seeing more of these twisted, nonadaptable psyches emerging, and their emergence is violent and lethal to anyone unfortunate enough to be nearby.
-Rocketmedic.

Your thoughts?
 
Hey Rocket,
I happen to work in the mental health field. So I do have some knowledge in this area. Mentally ill people become so in many ways. Naturally (develops between 16-25 yoa), as a result of abuse, stress, drugs, genetic defect etc.

The "spike" in violence I don't believe is any more real than global warming. It's just the amount of attention it's getti g from the media. Now there may be some truth to an increase of mass shootings. And that I believe is a result of mental illness. Sane people don't kill others for no reason.

The cause I believe is PISS POOR parenting. People don't know how to spend time with their kids anymore. They would rather set them infront of a tv or video game console and let that do the parenting. The problem is kids don't want to watch Sesame Street or play Mario. They want to watch the stuff their parents do. Basically violence. So that's what kids come to understand is normal. And that is why kids heros are violent.

The other problem, and I tell parents this everyday, in sitting your kid infront of the tv or video game disassociates them from society. It almost completely inhibits their ability to deal with the problems we faced as kids from other kids. And when that happens, kids return to what they know, violence. I'm not talking about a fist fight. I'm talking about shooting someone or anyone who hurt their feelings. And often they do it as if they were really in the video game or movie. I put it like this. "Video Games: Turning losers into winners everyday".

I have no problem with video games, even violent games. And i dont believe all kids that play video games are losers. But it has to be in moderation. Kids NEED to be around other kids. They NEED the social skills associated with human contact. But they aren't getting it. Parents NEED to be involved more with their children. But it's not cool to spend time with mom or dad (or both if the kid is really lucky). It's much cooler to be a hero on a game or watch a hero on tv as he violently kills bad guys.

Ask 20 young (6-15 year old) kids who their hero is. You might get 3 to say one of their parents. The rest will be someone violent.

Ask the same kids what's their favorite thing to do. Their answer will almost unanimously be play video games. It's not go fishing or play catch with mom or dad. And that's SOOO sad.
 
Psychology is a bogus field and I have zero regard for any such "professional's" opinion.
 
As always, it is better to talk psychology and have studies to cite, otherwise it turns into a discussion of philosophy and that goes nowhere really fast.
 
...Let's look at autism, Asperger's, and mental health. I am an Aspie- I exhibit many of the hallmarks of Asperger's...

In today's witch-hunt environment admissions like that could come back to bite you in serious ways.
 
Very true leadchucker,
If someone in the wrong circle read that at least in my state, that's really close to grounds to be EDO'd for a psych eval.
 
I appreciate the timing of this post. I am raising an 8 month old daughter. And the short response (since I am currently holding her while she's sleeping!) is I couldn't agree more. My generation (I am on the border of gen-x and millennials) is far more interested in being a child's friend than a proper authority figure or role model. Also, those my age seem to have different priorities, which usually involve their own needs over their child's.
 
Did you have a bad experience with it?

No. I minored in psych for my first degree. I was stunned at how often the field revised its previously sacred positions. I was mostly repulsed at how much of an impact popular opinion has on psychiatric medicine and psychological theory.

That, and the lack of success they have in the real world demonstrates its a bogus field.
 
And something else SunnySlopes,
Tell some of the returning Vets and even some Vets from Nam that I deal with daily that have PTSD that it's a bogus field. Watch the terror in their eyes when a door slams. Watch a returning vet 19 year old kid that sits at a table completely void of emotion, just stares and has tears rolling down his cheeks with the saddest look you've ever seen. Tell me then that it's bogus. Watch a mother sit in a room by herself and try to rescue a child that died in a car wreck 3 weeks ago. Tell me its bogus. How dare you, you ignorant, pompous, ass. You don't know a damn thing about it.
 
You don't know a damn thing about it

Apparantly I've struck a chord.

At any rate, you've described symptoms of psychological disorder. I never said there weren't people who suffer from such.

I'm saying so called "professionals" in the field can't help these people. A psychiatrist can prescribe medicine. That's about as far as it goes. But the medicine doesn't cure, now does it?

People have about as much a success rate of recovery on their own as they do relying on either psychiatrists or psychologists.

And that doesn't even address the scam of the counseling industry in general. In most states one can offer, for a fee, counseling services with a mere master's in counseling. That's a joke.

As far as the grieving mother, grief has stages and she'll recover with or without counseling. In her case, a sympathetic ear, whether from a psychiatrist, minister or wise friend is what's needed.

Lest you've missed the point, and apparantly you have, when some so-called mental health professional denigrates my firearm's ownership, it means nothing, as he is grossly unqualified to begin with.
 
Hey let's try to keep this civil!

Trust me. Any lack of civility is purely one sided. I'm merely expressing an opinion based upon personal observations. That's why they call it an "opinion."
 
I think you would be more correct to claim that certain parts of psychology are bogus, rather than the entire field itself, because that's simply not true at all. And like any other science, it's constantly adapting to new discoveries. If it didn't change at all I would cry foul. You are simplifying the human psyche far too much. But if counseling will help someone recover faster, what is the issue? That's their own prerogative. Not everyone has it all figured out for themselves in tough times and it can certainly help when their minds are overcast with emotion.
 
To get this thread back on track.....

Parenting: one thing I have noticed (this is anecdotal, I am not a scientist) is that many parents are all about trying "new methods" of parenting (ie "Tiger Moms" ). Yet many times when you ask these people the question "did your parents raise you right?" Generally, they will answer "yes". It seems odd to me, that you would not raise your kids in the same manner that you were raised, even though by and large you might say that your parents did "a good job". How can anyone possibly know the consequenses of raising your kids, using methods that they are not sure will even work right??? It seems like madness to me.....

I also see quite a bit of parents being "friends" with their kids. I am friends with my parents now, however this was not the case when I was growing up. My parents were most emphatically *not* my friends. They were authority figures.
 
bainter1212 said:
also see quite a bit of parents being "friends" with their kids. I am friends with my parents now, however this was not the case when I was growing up. My parents were most emphatically *not* my friends. They were authority figures.

Yeah same here. When you're an adult, it's a different story. I'm totally friends with my parents and I wouldn't want it any other way. But when I was growing up, my parents were definitely authority figures.
 
Well we can just agree to disagree. I've seen first hand in the field. You read text books. I'm done with this thread. It's like a 1st Lt. fresh out of the academy thinking he knows more about war than a Staff Sargeant who's has done 3 tours
 
You are correct. The parents are supposed to be the guides for children. To teach right and wrong. To reward good behavior, and punish bad. Being friends with your child or giving in to their wants for fear they won't like you is only doing them a disservice. The Xbox or tv should never be the guide.
 
To get this thread back on track.....

Parenting: one thing I have noticed (this is anecdotal, I am not a scientist) is that many parents are all about trying "new methods" of parenting (ie "Tiger Moms" ). Yet many times when you ask these people the question "did your parents raise you right?" Generally, they will answer "yes". It seems odd to me, that you would not raise your kids in the same manner that you were raised, even though by and large you might say that your parents did "a good job". How can anyone possibly know the consequenses of raising your kids, using methods that they are not sure will even work right??? It seems like madness to me.....

I also see quite a bit of parents being "friends" with their kids. I am friends with my parents now, however this was not the case when I was growing up. My parents were most emphatically *not* my friends. They were authority figures.

I agree with these observations on both levels.

Trust me. Any lack of civility is purely one sided. I'm merely expressing an opinion based upon personal observations. That's why they call it an "opinion."

You certainly are entitled to your opinion. But it shouldn't come as a real surprise to you that other people think differently than you.
Please keep it civil, as I'm really enjoying this thread.
 
I am an Aspie- I exhibit many of the hallmarks of Asperger's, I often do not consider the impact of my words before I say them, and I am quite blunt.

FWIW, "Aspergers Syndrome" is no longer a thing and has been dropped from the DSM-5.
The characteristics formerly attributed to "Aspies" are now considered to be part of Autism spectrum disorder.

In any case, publicly labeling yourself as mentally or emotionally impaired is a bad idea.
 
What is the danger in being honestvabout something? I'm already trusted with quite a lot of responsibility.
 
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