Toughest, beefiest 357 Magnum? Ruger Redhawk??
- Thread starter Peter M. Eick
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Certaindeaf
member
The GP is fairly overbuilt. It's purportedly much stronger than the Six series and they were pretty darn strong. Then you'd also have a normal handgun instead of a boat anchor.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
The Redhawk is no doubt a strong sixgun and the Contender has a lot of potential but neither are as strong or as durable as the FA 83. Think about it like this, only the FA 83 is designed to handle 65,000psi, in a much larger chambering, for its lifetime. It is built for far more precise tolerances and of stronger materials. For this sixgun, we have loads consisting of 160's@1750fps, 180's@1650fps and 200's@1500fps.
All that said, a Blackhawk would probably be your best choice for this. They're cheap and plentiful and will stand up nicely to your loads.
roaddog28
Member
Drail is spot one about destroying even the strongest revolvers by shooting light grain high velocity with slow burning powders rounds. Here is a example of what happen to a GP100 after a years worth of shooting the so called "flame throwers"
The round: 125 grain Hornady XTP over 22 gr. of H110 with a Remington 5 1/2 primer. This round is at 45,000 cup pressure. This round is in the Hodgdons loading manual.
Notice the forcing cone and how eroded it is. No matter how strong the revolver is if you reload these type of rounds this could happen.
Howard
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TAKtical
Member
Is it just me or does that redhawk look like it has the beefiest cylinder ever???
I'll vote for the FA 353...as Clark mentioned it was designed to run at high pressure with 45 cal. holes.
Taffin did some loadwork for the 353, link:
http://handloads.com/loaddata/taffi...&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=
He said the brass was the limiting factor...fwiw, dvnv
Taffin did some loadwork for the 353, link:
http://handloads.com/loaddata/taffi...&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=
He said the brass was the limiting factor...fwiw, dvnv
Peter M. Eick
Member
So the hunt begins.
I know I can find a blackhawk pretty much any day at my local dealer. I can also occasionally see a FA 357. I will watch and see if I can shake up a Redhawk 357 and if I get bored get the Blackhawk.
So off to the classified to post a "I am a looking for one"..
Thanks a bunch for the advice.
I know I can find a blackhawk pretty much any day at my local dealer. I can also occasionally see a FA 357. I will watch and see if I can shake up a Redhawk 357 and if I get bored get the Blackhawk.
So off to the classified to post a "I am a looking for one"..
Thanks a bunch for the advice.
Good luck, if I am not mistaken they are the hardest Redhawks to find
Certaindeaf
member
And they may well have been proof tested for years by some nimrod.
BullRunBear
Member
If you can find the 357 Redhawk, I think it will suit your purposes. Mine is a stainless with 7.5" barrel. When I was younger and, possibly, dumber, I put some very heavy 158 gr. and 180 gr. loads through it. No problem or signs of stress at the forcing cone. I don't go for that level of recoil anymore but it is still a satisfying (and attention grabbing) revolver to use. The joke is that it does a beautiful job with 38 special WCs. Feels like a 22lr.
Just to be annoying, when I got mine almost 30 years ago I traded a pawnbroker a manual typewriter for the Redhawk. Probably the best firearms trade I'll ever do.
Jeff
Just to be annoying, when I got mine almost 30 years ago I traded a pawnbroker a manual typewriter for the Redhawk. Probably the best firearms trade I'll ever do.
Jeff
It has been estimated by some that the redhawk should have a burst strength of over 100,000 psi. I recently saw some redhawk loading data that puts a 250 grain LFP at close to 1200 fps.
I am not recommending the data, but posting where I found it: http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=357 Magnum&Weight=All&type=Handgun
It is found at the end of the list.
I am not recommending the data, but posting where I found it: http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=357 Magnum&Weight=All&type=Handgun
It is found at the end of the list.
Cracked forcing cones
I cracked the forcing cone on a Colt Lawman MKIII with an Alliant recommended load of Blue Dot and 125 JHP. I fired about 70 rounds that day and they were on the hot end for sure, maybe if I let the gun cool between cylinder loads, it might not have happened but it did. Alliant now has a warning that the 357 load data for 125 grain bullets is no longer recommended. Remember that the Ruger .357 maximum was discontinued due to flame cutting the top strap. I believe SAMMI did everyone a service by lowering the max. pressure on current .357 ammo.
I cracked the forcing cone on a Colt Lawman MKIII with an Alliant recommended load of Blue Dot and 125 JHP. I fired about 70 rounds that day and they were on the hot end for sure, maybe if I let the gun cool between cylinder loads, it might not have happened but it did. Alliant now has a warning that the 357 load data for 125 grain bullets is no longer recommended. Remember that the Ruger .357 maximum was discontinued due to flame cutting the top strap. I believe SAMMI did everyone a service by lowering the max. pressure on current .357 ammo.
zxcvbob
Member
Look up ".353 Casull". That should give you most of your answers (Freedom Arms, not sure which model)
For a double action, you are pretty much limited to a used Redhawk.
I've pushed things pretty far with a Taurus Gaucho (SAA) where I was getting case head separations. The fun wore off pretty quick because I don't have a lot of .357 brass. Also I don't want to wear out the gun prematurely, even if it's a Taurus.
For a double action, you are pretty much limited to a used Redhawk.
I've pushed things pretty far with a Taurus Gaucho (SAA) where I was getting case head separations. The fun wore off pretty quick because I don't have a lot of .357 brass. Also I don't want to wear out the gun prematurely, even if it's a Taurus.
Peter M. Eick
Member
Iggy is right. I am only interested in what the 357 Magnum can really do. If I want more power I just go to my 357 Maximum. This is just a study in understanding what the actual round is capable of.
Much like my love of the 38/44s. The 357 Magnum makes more sense but the romance of the 38/44 is what is neat to study.
Besides, I don't reload 44's and yet I usually load about 10,000 .358 caliber 158's every year for my hobby. It just makes sense to stay with the 357 magnum over the 44 magnum.
Much like my love of the 38/44s. The 357 Magnum makes more sense but the romance of the 38/44 is what is neat to study.
Besides, I don't reload 44's and yet I usually load about 10,000 .358 caliber 158's every year for my hobby. It just makes sense to stay with the 357 magnum over the 44 magnum.
They even made some Super Redhawks in .357 Magnum. I would presume those are even more robust than the standard Redhawk.
These .44 Magnum+ revolvers that are considered robust for even the .44 magnum in .357 are severely overbuilt and very tough.
If I recall the barrel is the same overall external diameter as the .44 Magnum versions using the same barrel blanks, and so it is just thicker and even tougher, like a bull barrel.
I have even seen some unfluted .357 cylinders which would be even tougher with more metal. Not sure how they were obtained though.
However on the same note I would be careful of used ones because with such a reputation many that have gone out of thier way to get them have done so to push them to new limits.
Meaning they may have experienced more punishment than similar aged revolvers.
They may have had large quantities of fast powders and maximum velocity rounds shot through flash cutting the top strap or similar wear to barrel and other areas.
It is still metal, and fast hot gases cause wear.
As you get further from when they were produced and more excessive handloaders have owned them the higher the percentage that have been severely abused.
The current production GP100 is pretty robust.
These .44 Magnum+ revolvers that are considered robust for even the .44 magnum in .357 are severely overbuilt and very tough.
If I recall the barrel is the same overall external diameter as the .44 Magnum versions using the same barrel blanks, and so it is just thicker and even tougher, like a bull barrel.
I have even seen some unfluted .357 cylinders which would be even tougher with more metal. Not sure how they were obtained though.
However on the same note I would be careful of used ones because with such a reputation many that have gone out of thier way to get them have done so to push them to new limits.
Meaning they may have experienced more punishment than similar aged revolvers.
They may have had large quantities of fast powders and maximum velocity rounds shot through flash cutting the top strap or similar wear to barrel and other areas.
It is still metal, and fast hot gases cause wear.
As you get further from when they were produced and more excessive handloaders have owned them the higher the percentage that have been severely abused.
The current production GP100 is pretty robust.
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Peter M. Eick
Member
Thanks for the advice. I figure if I get one and it has seen some hard times, I will send it to Ruger for a rebuild. If not, well, I am going to do the same thing to and just see how far I can go.
I know this is a phase I go through occasionally. I first learned about the 38 special. Then the 38/44 and now I am looking to take on the 357 magnum.
If I wanted more power I would go to my 357 Maxes or my
357 Max Contender.
The key to me is a gun I don't have an attachment to like my Registered Magnum
(although I have actually fired full original power 357 magnums out of my 1939 Registered Magnum).
So I can investigate what the 357 Magnum can do in a revolver format. Basically I want to work up in a bunch of different powders to the 1937 load levels of Sharpe. How can I get there, can I get there, and if so with what powder would give me the lowest pressures and most reliability.
To me it is just a game of research. I am close to finishing up my investigation of the 38/44 and have now worked out some great loads for my 32 odd 38/44s. I am starting to hunt for a new reloading challenge to study and the mighty 357 Magnum seems interesting.
I should have probably put that in my first post, but I had not really crystallized in my head what I wanted to do and why. I just had a concept and was pushing it forward.
I know this is a phase I go through occasionally. I first learned about the 38 special. Then the 38/44 and now I am looking to take on the 357 magnum.
If I wanted more power I would go to my 357 Maxes or my
357 Max Contender.
The key to me is a gun I don't have an attachment to like my Registered Magnum
(although I have actually fired full original power 357 magnums out of my 1939 Registered Magnum).
So I can investigate what the 357 Magnum can do in a revolver format. Basically I want to work up in a bunch of different powders to the 1937 load levels of Sharpe. How can I get there, can I get there, and if so with what powder would give me the lowest pressures and most reliability.
To me it is just a game of research. I am close to finishing up my investigation of the 38/44 and have now worked out some great loads for my 32 odd 38/44s. I am starting to hunt for a new reloading challenge to study and the mighty 357 Magnum seems interesting.
I should have probably put that in my first post, but I had not really crystallized in my head what I wanted to do and why. I just had a concept and was pushing it forward.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
I've never seen or heard of one, prove it.
Never seen or heard of this either. Seen plenty with unfluted cylinders but they were either .45's fitted with .454 SRH cylinders or custom five-shot .45Colt, .475's or .500's. Besides, unfluted cylinders are heavier but not stronger.
You do understand that maximum velocities are obtained with slow powders, right?
Hello Peter,
It sounds like you are intrested in test to destruction. This has long been the only way to find upper limits on men and machines. Major Bong died I believe in a test flight, Yeager took the Bell X1 to a speed no one had ever been able to live through, Mercury astronauts climbed into a tin can with almost no room and almost no controls to find a way to the moon. You are trying to hit a moving target of maximum potential in the thin slice of time known as right this minute. Once you find maximum potential for .357 and a revolver, you have given some person some where a new goal to reach. If there weren't crazed people like yourself, the Navy would still be using boarding cutlesses at 18" instead of trying to squeeze a rail gun onto a cruiser.
Keep it up, be careful but keep it up,
blindhari
It sounds like you are intrested in test to destruction. This has long been the only way to find upper limits on men and machines. Major Bong died I believe in a test flight, Yeager took the Bell X1 to a speed no one had ever been able to live through, Mercury astronauts climbed into a tin can with almost no room and almost no controls to find a way to the moon. You are trying to hit a moving target of maximum potential in the thin slice of time known as right this minute. Once you find maximum potential for .357 and a revolver, you have given some person some where a new goal to reach. If there weren't crazed people like yourself, the Navy would still be using boarding cutlesses at 18" instead of trying to squeeze a rail gun onto a cruiser.
Keep it up, be careful but keep it up,
blindhari
Made for the Uk market in small numbers.
Certainly be hard to get ahold of, but they are out there.
Here is a video of one being fired on you tube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNDlPH0ZHAw
Seen them on a regular redhawk. They may have been custom or maybe they had Ruger to do something special (unfluted would after all be even easier for them to make than fluted.)
They stuck with me because I later wanted to do the same in a .44 Magnum version of the super redhawk, but the unfluted cylinders were only available in the larger calibers. So I spent some time trying to figure out how to go about it.
And I do believe they are stronger. A solid cylinder is going to have more resistance to giving out. Even in areas other than the fluting like where the notches are cut (often the weakest point and stronger in Rugers because they are between the chambers not on them), because a circle will resist deformation better. Granted not by much.
Plus they look different.
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I too am trying (just getting started) to develop loads for my 357 blackhawk. I've sold my heavy revolvers due to the combination of me not being able to shoot accurately and I can't take the recoil. I kept the 357 because it is really an accurate gun and the recoil doesn't bother me.
Right now I'm playing with 170 gr keith bullets, next is 180 gr fp and I may try a 200+ grain lead rifle bullet if I can't get the results I want from the other two.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
You're probably right about those for export to the UK. I thought about that after I posted.
Fluting does not lessen the strength of a cylinder. This is well proven and Hamilton Bowen wrote of it in his book, The Custom Revolver. The weak point is at the bolt notch and this area is unchanged when the cylinder is fluted.
Fluting does not lessen the strength of a cylinder. This is well proven and Hamilton Bowen wrote of it in his book, The Custom Revolver. The weak point is at the bolt notch and this area is unchanged when the cylinder is fluted.
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