DHS Letter To Senator Coburn: Ammunition Purchases

Status
Not open for further replies.
one would think that it would not be all that hard to get an answer to a simple question like this.
 
A couple of points come to mind.

1) This is very much in keeping with suggestions we've been making here about who DHS has to provide ammo for, and how much. No surprises -- EXCEPT that their ammo purchases have been FALLING off significantly. I think we should demand to know WHY DHS is NOT purchasing as much ammo as they once did!

2) This is not exactly the same thing as the much ballyhooed IDIQ contract to supply [Carl Sagan]billions and billions[/Carl Sagan] of rounds in the future.
 
In 2008 there were over 120,000 sworn, pistol and rifle and shotgun toting Feds operating in the U.S. prolly with more today.
Plus 1600 in P.R.
If you take number if rounds purchased and divide it by the numbers of gun-toters, you get just under 900 rounds per officer/agent/BOP guard/Deputy Marshall, etc.
That makes the $37 million come out to $300 ish bucks a year per officer.
Lets say 100 rounds for a qual twice a year for the standard officer for pistol only. Now mix in rifle, shotgun...
I think this story has been beaten to death over and over and over.
The DHS isn't stockpiling to gun down us patriots in Liberal-Death-Re-education Camps.
Let's do math and leave the (crazy) conjecture to the Alex Jones of the world.

http://bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fleo08.pdf
 
Let's do math and leave the (crazy) conjecture to the Alex Jones of the world.
Click to expand...

Ok let's say that is true, shortages didn't happen untill 2013, what are the figures for 2013? Second, you believe everything the government says? Right they never lie.

How many rounds of ammo does the DOD purchase or is that included in this figure, I would think they need more than the DHS purchases. And has their pruchases gone up?

The long and short of it is I have no idea on what is going on, and neither does anyone here.

Jim
 
Governments may lie, but ledgers do not.

Surprisingly, it seems the government gets actually a worse price per round then the average consumer did in the good times. I am used to getting 5.56x45 at 33 cents per round and handgun ammo at 25-34 cents per round (varies by caliber). DHS seems to be paying about 37 cents per round....a good 10% above what consumers pay. I figured they should be getting a descent quantity discount for buying as much ammo at once as they do, but I guess not.
 
"The numbers that I've seen don't add up."

Quit looking at articles like the one in Forbes. There has been NO purchase of 1.6 billion rounds of ammo. The contract allows the purchase of that much ammo over 5 years IF the agency can come up with the money and then decides to actually order some ammo. They don't have to buy any ammo at all. This is a standard government contract that says we might want this much ammo, but maybe not.


"I think we should demand to know WHY DHS is NOT purchasing as much ammo as they once did!"

I think we know why - lack of money. The federal budget is a bust. Do we even have a current federal budget?
 
"I think we should demand to know WHY DHS is NOT purchasing as much ammo as they once did!"
Click to expand...

I think we know why - lack of money. The federal budget is a bust. Do we even have a current federal budget?
Click to expand...

But what about the massive government conspiracy to equip our law enforcement agencies to take over the country and subjugate the population?

How in the world are they paying for THAT then? That's what I want to know! I mean, it's not just ammo. That's millions of pairs of jackboots, and all those expensive little swagger sticks. ...




;)
 
Last edited:
I think the large amount of armored vehicle (MRAPS) purchasing by DHS for domestic operations is far more intriguing than ammo purchases.
 
Sam you crack me up. Some fail to see your humor. Coburn is all about finding government wasteful spending. He found BILLIONS and didn't have to look very hard.

The government pays more because the company's that sell said product know the government will pay more. Like $2500 for a toilet seat or $500 for a screwdriver. I'm sure that's an exaggeration but I bet it's not as big of an exaggeration as we think.
 
The CEO at Olin/Winchester that make Winchester-branded ammunition said that the company's back-ordered commercial ammunition orders (the stuff you and I buy) is more then U.S. military service and law enforcement combined. :what:

If you want to know what's going on, visit your local WalMart when the weekly ammunition shipment comes in.

And don't think for one minute that this doesn't have some folks in Washington alarmed.
 
That's another problem I have. They fly over me all of the time. :what:

I think they are either being tested, or on they're way to the U.S./Mexican border for a look-see. I find them fun to watch. :cool:
 
Hey if we follow Biden's advice..... Maybe he's scared of drones too!!!! "Honey I think there's someone outside. Go take that double barrel and shoot it out the window a couple times". Maybe he's scared they are spying on him. Genius!!!

Sorry, that just popped in my head. Back on topic.
 
I've never been bothered by the amount of ammunition ordered by LE agencies (having been involved in such things myself).

Locking in pricing for 2-5 years on contracts good for future purchases makes sense, too.

If the motoring public and the gov are trying to out-do each other on ordering ammunition (with the public picking up the bill for both :scrutiny: ), the only ones laughing are the major ammo companies. :neener:
 
The government pays more because the company's that sell said product know the government will pay more. Like $2500 for a toilet seat or $500 for a screwdriver. I'm sure that's an exaggeration but I bet it's not as big of an exaggeration as we think.
Click to expand...
No, the government pays more because of the added overhead, administration, compliance reporting, and expense that government contractors entail if they want to sell to FedGov. For ammunition, that would entail everything from EEO reporting to potential ITAR compliance. It's not as easy as a commercial sale where you simply take the order, generate an invoice, run the customer's credit card, and ship.
 
With as many rounds as they seem to allocate to annual training/qualification, I'd expect these DHS affiliated groups to be very good shots.

I wonder how much the NYC police force spends on practice ammunition, given that they'll fire dozens of rounds and hit innocent bystanders to take down 1 shooter. Or, how many rounds the LA police use for annual practice, as they seem to be all over the place with their firing on a stationary pickup truck.
 
-v- said:
Governments may lie, but ledgers do not.

Surprisingly, it seems the government gets actually a worse price per round then the average consumer did in the good times. I am used to getting 5.56x45 at 33 cents per round and handgun ammo at 25-34 cents per round (varies by caliber). DHS seems to be paying about 37 cents per round....a good 10% above what consumers pay. I figured they should be getting a descent quantity discount for buying as much ammo at once as they do, but I guess not.
Click to expand...
DHS buys a mix of M855 and hunting/defense rounds in .223. The defensive stuff is considerably more expensive which skews the average up.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top