Beretta 92 FS, Any reason not to buy ?

leadcounsel said:

Side by side, the 92fs just cannot compete in most categories with other pistols, and the ONLY reason it's a service pistol is because of our then need to deal with the Italians for an Airbase in Italy.

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Pure internet rumor. The truth about the 92 is that is it probably the most tested handgun in history. Read about it sometime, the 92 has been absolutely torture tested by the military, several times over.

The only guns that survived the testing were the 92 and the Sig 2something. The Sig was slightly less expensive per gun, but Beretta won the contract by beating Sig on spare parts.

It does seem to be a polarizing gun, and I'm not sure why. Some people complain about the ergonomics and say it doesn't fit their hand. Some people hate the frame mounted safety. Personally, I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that a foreign 9mm replaced the American 1911.

GambJoe said:

Yo, chief both the 92 and the 96 have the same trigger and not so great ergonomics. I have a sp101 in 357 with a 2 1/4 barrel that I shoot more accurately than my 96. From what I read there is little difference between the 92 and 96 in accuracy.

I know I was just talking crap and wasn't trying to come of as an expert on the 92 but aren't they are more then similar in dimension and weight?

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Ah, I see what you're saying now. Yes, the 96 is modeled after the 92 and thus very similar in dimension and weight.

I don't know how the 96 shoots...never shot one. But I do know how the 92 shoots. At least how mine shoots, anyway.

Straight out of the box, mine has been absolutely reliable and I can punch the black center circle out of a bullseye target at 10 yards with it. It's a dream to shoot, the grip caresses my hand, it's a snap to break down and reassemble, and asthetically speaking is a beauty to behold.

In fact, one of these days I'm going to take it squirrel hunting, just because I can. Head shots will be no problem with it.

Maybe I'll join you, I'll take along my sp101. We Texans tend to take squirrel's at greater distance then 10 yards. Don't want them to get to close to us. Head shots of course. We just think 9mm doesn't have enough stopping power for the type of squirrel you find around here.

My 92FS was very unreliable during the break in, even now its not that great. A fun range gun, but not one I would trust for HD. I like the PX4 Storm more.

Side by side, the 92fs just cannot compete in most categories with other pistols..

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odd... Wonder how it managed to win national events at Camp Perry, IDPA, IPSC, USPSA?

Course the argument could always be the Indian and not the Arrow.. (How else do you explain Robert Vogel?)

It is a combination of man and machine though.

GambJoe said:

Maybe I'll join you, I'll take along my sp101. We Texans tend to take squirrel's at greater distance then 10 yards. Don't want them to get to close to us. Head shots of course. We just think 9mm doesn't have enough stopping power for the type of squirrel you find around here.

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I compensate for the 9mm by using Speer 115gr Gold Dot hollowpoints. I've been to Texas a few times (I have a brother who lives in Texas) and none of the squirrels out there look to be capable of surviving this.

2bfree said:

Well, nothing so far. traveled 30 miles in heavy traffic to take a look at A CZ 75B and it had been sold by the time I got there, they did not have a Beretta in stock. The Beretta was 579.00 and the CZ was 499.00. This is a high volume place, I did get my 1911 from them 'cause they were the only ones in the area that had it. Any other suggestions for something under 800.00. I know Sigs are out. Must have a longer sight radius and a good range gun ? Not worried about CC as I have my CZ 75 D for that or HD.

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Would you prefer that the suggestions stay DA/SA and hammer fired or are you open to DAO striker-fired like Glocks / M&Ps or DA/SA striker-fired like the Walther P99-AS?

Cannot think of a reason not to buy a 92.... other than someone asking more than its worth!

But when you need one they are worth more than they cost....

No reason not to buy, but there is a good deal on police turn-ins right now:

$469
http://gun-deals.com/deals/4660-beretta-92fs

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+1... I got one used for $450 used at Cabela's.

No reason not to buy a 92. I've owned eight or ten over the years. Have three now. Never regretted any I've bought. Overpaid for some and got great deals on others. Regretted selling every one I let go. Reliability is top notch. I shoot them better than any other I've tried. Drawing on my experience, the 92 is one gun I might trust right out of the box (S&W third generation autos would be the other). I own Glocks, S&Ws, and Rugers currently, and like them all. But if I had to choose one handgun, it would be this famous Italian beauty.

(Also, it carries better than some would have you believe).

I wonder how many retired LAPD officers who carried a Beretta daily have chosen to own a Beretta 92 after retirement. I wonder how many GI's who have toted the Beretta regularly have done the same. I have one, but I never carried it in either type of service, but I have a great respect for it. I currently enjoy the hell out of it as a range gun, for home defense, and even rotate it into the concealed carry occasionally.

I've carried a 96 and a 92 as duty guns. I still have the 92. It is stupid accurate, and I've never seen a single jam out of either. It gets a bad rap sometimes because idiots use them. I saw a teletype warning about a 'problem with the Beretta 92 series' once. Some screwball motor jock went to qualify and his gun was locked up solid. This department, in their infinite wisdom, said the gun malfunctioned because it was exposed to the elements and dirt and debris got into it causing it to seize. Since oiling and periodic inspection is for sissies, I guess they had a point.

SharpsDressedMan said:

I wonder how many retired LAPD officers who carried a Beretta daily have chosen to own a Beretta 92 after retirement. I wonder how many GI's who have toted the Beretta regularly have done the same. I have one, but I never carried it in either type of service, but I have a great respect for it. I currently enjoy the hell out of it as a range gun, for home defense, and even rotate it into the concealed carry occasionally.

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I carried one for a year in the sandbox, currently own one and don't think I'll ever sell. My issue M9 never jammed and was more accurate than what I am capable of. My personal one is just as good. No reason to turn one down if you get a good deal on it.

The role of a sidearm is NOT exactly the same as the role it would play for a civilian range toy or self/home defense or carry piece.

The military has political reasons to get XYZ product, and unfortunately often gets INFERIOR products. MILSPEC is NOT always a good thing... and the military is very very slow to change and requires extensive independing testing. Personally, I can simply read testing results and pick the best gun...

Features desireable in the military may not be at home... the safey on the M9 is in a bad spot, and operates opposite of common sense. But the military requires an external safety and decocker. Also, sidearms are not a primary weapon in the military, unlike in personal home defense.

In the 1980s when the Army was in the hunt for a new sidearm, Smith & Wesson, Beretta, SIG Sauer, Heckler & Koch, Walther, Steyr, and Fabrique Nationale competed.

At the time, as you can see, the competition was not very stiff. I assert that in the 30 years since, new guns and designs crush the M9 in nearly every aspect/feature.

Google torture tests for Glock, XD, and CZ and you'll conclude that the 'tests' the Army used for the M9 are childs play.

Yes it's a sexy gun, and has good ergonomics. Sig Sauer was the only company with as good as a gun, and HK was overpriced.

The M9 is an okay gun, but there are just better guns in the price range. I don't dispute that some professionals can tune a gun and make it operate... but that is like saying that since a professional racecar driver wins using a Subaru, then ALL Subarus can operate at that level. It should be obvious that the professionals aren't using 'off the shelf' pistols. They are professionally fitted and tuned race guns.

Don't just rely on me.... U.S. Special Operations have a choice in sidearms, and they notably pick Glock, Sig Sauer, and HK... that should tell you something.

A quick look at Wikipedia, and around 50 nations use Glocks for military and police, 30 or so use Sig 229... and so on ...

And according to CZ, the CZ75 is the most used pistol in the world. Over 60 countries use it as the standard side arm of their Armies, National police forces, National security agencies or other Law enforcement organizations. No other pistol can make this claim.

Don't you find it odd that Italy and the USA and NO other nation uses the Beretta 92 as the sidearm of choice. And police departments have abandoned it in favor of Glock, XD, and Smith and Wesson...

So, either the rest of the world is wrong, or the rest of the world is right and the 92/M9 is not really that good of a value pistol compared to the other dozen outstanding choices.

But for my own tastes, I might own a Beretta again one day, but only if it's a GREAT price (under $450). I'd much prefer to get the other guns I mentioned. I have the resources to get any handgun I want, and I rely on lots of guns OTHER than the M9 (which I carried in Iraq, and also used to own).

The irony is you rail against one government entity, then use another to attempt to make a point.

Did you even read the XM9 trials? Seems odd that you would say HK was over priced when they couldn't pass reliability or corrosion testing and were booted.

True sig and beretta were the only standouts.. Yet, both of which are carried by our troops today.

They are absolutely good shooters; and I'm a Glock guy, but I also give Beretta its due.

the only reason I haven't bought the beretta yet, is I think its just plain ugly. Well that and its thick and blocky and with my small hands it not comfortable to shoot. To be fair I may be the only one with small gal sized hands that finds it uncomfortable to shoot, and I might also be the only one who thinks its butt ugly?

Those things aside, I find the cz75 and hi power to be at the bare minimum equal, but closer to reality, superior pistols to the beretta. Both of those have just as long various countries military and police useage and are so good they are still in use today. In the end too each his own, the beretta is a fine choice, just not for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiln View Post
Earlier models are known for locking block failures that completely lock up the gun. I think Beretta has pretty much fixed this issue with a few changes to the locking block itself.

That's true, but those are pretty old production. If memory serves the locking block is on generation three now. Still probably the weakest point of the design and good to replace regularly like springs.

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Um, nope, they still break, even with the recent manufacture style with the recessed cut on the locking block. Being a USAF CATM instructor, that's probably the number one thing we see break on these guns. In every class I teach, I have them check the "armpits of the locking block cross" for hairline cracks. A cracked locking block is easy to replace but a broken locking block in the gun will tie it up where at best I have had to pry it out with a screwdriver and at worst, cut the slide with a dremel tool! Speaking of slides, yes, they do still crack and break. It's referred to as a "slide separation failure" and yes, I've seen it happen before on several occasions. In every case, they will crack on the left side of the slide right at the "PB" stamp. Again, cracked slides are easy to replace but a separated one is rather interesting where the rear half is fully to the rear while the front half, recoil spring and guide rod are someplace downrange!
Now all that being said, I still own a civie 92FS version that hasn't had these problems or the infamous "the freakin' locking block fell out of the barrel because I gave it a nasty glance" problem I have seen most every military M9 have. It's accurate, reliable (as long as you stay away from aftermarket or early production checkmate mags and keep it lubed up) and fits my hands pretty well. Yes, the decocking lever is a PITA when you are doing malfunction drills but if you tuck a finger under the decocking lever while ripping the slide back, it's not much of an issue. It's not a total POS (even though it doesn't come in .45 ACP) but it's from an earlier generation of pistols where polymer wasn't used, rails weren't standard and 15 rounds was pretty much the standard fare in 9mm magazines but it does work and works fairly well, even if the M882 round isn't really much of a fight stopper. That's the great thing about civilians, you aren't limited to the M882 round and can actually use a more effective hollow point round and still rest assured that the M9 will have a pretty decent chance of feeding it without any problems.

I remember back when my Marine corps unit switched over to the M9. Had a safety stand down due to the slides flying off after about 1500 rounds. I wouldn't and don't trust the M9/92 design at all. There are too many other better designed guns out there. JMHO.

I could see a slide flying off if the person who REASSEMBLED the gun after cleaning didn't engage the take down button all the way back in place, and it returned during recoil to the "take down" position. BUT, that would be a stupid, human error, not the gun's. And rather than figure out what happened, the Marines shutdown training, and blamed the guns.

leadcounsel said:

the safey on the M9 is in a bad spot, and operates opposite of common sense.
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Yes it's a sexy gun, and has good ergonomics.

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That's pretty contradictory, no?

The safety on the 92 is actually pretty common. Check out the Walther PPK, all those steel framed SW semis from the 60's - 90's, the Desert Eagle, and I'm sure many more. True, it works opposite from a 1911 type safety, but I think it makes a lotta sense for a drophammer safety.

leadcounsel said:

Don't you find it odd that Italy and the USA and NO other nation uses the Beretta 92 as the sidearm of choice. And police departments have abandoned it in favor of Glock, XD, and Smith and Wesson...

So, either the rest of the world is wrong, or the rest of the world is right and the 92/M9 is not really that good of a value pistol compared to the other dozen outstanding choices.

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COMPLETELY false. After the US military's extensive testing, LOTS of agencies worldwide adopted the gun. Check it out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_92#Users

I've owned pistols, and been shooting them for over thirty years. That doesn't make me an expert, however, I do have experience owning and shooting pistols from Colt, Ruger, Sig, HK, CZ, Browning/FN, Beretta, Walther, and many others. I avoided the Beretta 92FS due to the Walther safety it has. It operates like my P-38 safety which I hate. So recently I bought a 92FS after shooting a friends, and love it. Guess what? I realized that I can just use the Beretta's safety as a decocker, and not leave it engaged. A DA/SA pistol doesn't need a safety device, so it remains OFF. End of issue.

The Beretta is a good pistol and at $550 new in box, a darn good value in today's market.

Speaking of slides, yes, they do still crack and break. It's referred to as a "slide separation failure" and yes, I've seen it happen before on several occasions.

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There were 14 documented cases out of a batch of 3 million pistols of the slide separating.