Musings about "price gouging"

as far as price gouging goes, i sincerely hope that everyone doing it, looses their financial backside in the very near future, and ends up in the gutters with the drunks and bums. i actually want much, much worse things to happen to them, but being a family site, i am trying my best to keep it nice. basically, they fall into the same class as the politicians causing all of this!

I wonder how many of the scalpers or price gougers are what we would recognize as gun people--firearms enthusiasts or fellow hunter/shooters--and how many are non-gunny exploiters of a panick?

x_wrench as far as price gouging goes, i sincerely hope that everyone doing it, looses their financial backside in the very near future, and ends up in the gutters with the drunks and bums. i actually want much, much worse things to happen to them, but being a family site, i am trying my best to keep it nice. basically, they fall into the same class as the politicians causing all of this!

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Wow.
Someone didn't learn anything from 2008 did they?

Carl N. Brown I wonder how many of the scalpers or price gougers are what we would recognize as gun people--firearms enthusiasts or fellow hunter/shooters--and how many are non-gunny exploiters of a panick?

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I've wondered about that myself. It's been a regular topic of discussion from quite a few of my customers.

I have no doubt that some big box store employees (WalMart, Academy, etc) have benefitted from their position. That doesn't bother me one bit. If you want an employee discount or want to buy ammo before it gets to the ammo cabinet get a job at WalMart or Academy.

I do find it difficult to believe that "non gunny exploiters" would waste their time prowling every WalMart in search of the elusive bulk packs.

x_wrench believes its the "politicians causing all of this!"............no kidding. Apparently he didn't get the hidden messages from gun control legislation in the 1934 NFA, 1968 GCA, 1986 Hughes Amendment , 1994 Assault Weapons Ban, etc. Political rhetoric may fan the flames of panic buying but it ain't politicians standing in line outside Academy every morning is it?

No, the Great Ammo Panic of 2012-13 was and continues to be our own fault (just like the GAP of 2008-09). Unlike gasoline, milk or bread, ammunition has a pretty long shelf life. It can sit in my closet until I decide to use it..........or sell it. What price I sell MY OWN ammunition is nobodys business.

Those who call it "gouging" are ignorant of what the term means. They're ticked off that someone else had the foresight to buy ammunition when it was readily available AND THEY CHOSE NOT TO DO SO!!! They learned nothing from the previous Great Ammo Panic and choose instead to advertise their poor decision making and lack of planning preferring to whine about "gougers"!

I have a couple of friends who dropped off ammo for me to sell on consignment. The prices they want are a little less than what you would pay on gunbroker, but definitely higher than retail pricing last summer. One guy complained about the high price, but bought ten 50rnd/boxes of WWB 9mm @ $30 each. Guess who had a table at the Dallas Market Hall gun show selling the very ammunition he bought from me? Yep, and he had marked it up another 25%. I don't know if he sold it all or not........and I don't care.

dogtown tom:

Those who call it "gouging" are ignorant of what the term means

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Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Shall we elaborate?

Wikipedia:

Price gouging is a pejorative term referring to a situation in which a seller prices goods or commodities much higher than is considered reasonable or fair. This rapid increase in prices occurs after a demand or supply shock: examples include price increases after hurricanes or other natural disasters. In precise, legal usage, it is the name of a crime that applies in some of the United States during civil emergencies. In less precise usage, it can refer either to prices obtained by practices inconsistent with a competitive free market, or to windfall profits. In the Soviet Union, it was simply included under the single definition of speculation.

The term is similar to profiteering but can be distinguished by being short-term and localized, and by a restriction to essentials such as food, clothing, shelter, medicine and equipment needed to preserve life, limb and property.

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Wisegeek.com:

"The term price gouging is used in two different ways. In casual usage, it refers to raising the prices on goods or services to a level which is perceived as unfair. It is also a legal term in some regions of the world, where there are laws against taking advantage of consumers when a period of emergency has been declared. This type of Price gouging could occur during a hurricane for example, when a shop-owner might raise the price of emergency supplies to profit from increased demand.

When people use the term in a casual sense, they usually mean it to suggest that the prices at a store or company are unfair, and that they represent unreasonable profits. In a free market system of course, no profits are “unreasonable,” and supporters of free-market capitalism point out that raising prices on goods in high demand is simply a savvy business move. Consumers typically feel differently because they are the ones who must bear the brunt of the high prices.

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It can't be any more clearer.

You are more ignorant if you deny that there is no price gouging going on, as CTD did as a very specific example selling a $10 GI mag for $100. I bought a ton of GI mags from a friend in Dec for $8/each, and sold them for $20-25 during the panic--not $100.

I may be ignorant, but its still gouging, no matter what my level of intelligence is.

Per my Webster's New World Dictionary in hardback, Gouging is listed as - to defraud or overcharge. My dictionary makes no mention as to whether the product/article/whatever is a needed item or an unneeded item, only that it is an item that is overpriced.

So selling an item that retails in the range of $20-$25 dollars and then attempting to sell it for $75 - $100 is obviously overcharging. To think otherwise is pure folly.

jcwit said:

So selling an item that retails in the range of $20-$25 dollars and then attempting to sell it for $75 - $100 is obviously overcharging. To think otherwise is pure folly.

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Obviously posted by someone who's never bought a soda or candy out of a vending machine ($.25 coke or candy bar at Wal-Mart will cost you $1.00), food or beverages at a sporting event ($.25 coke at Wal-Mart cost $6.00 at the NFL games here) , or a t-shirt at any tourist attraction ($5.00 T-shirt at Wal-Mart will cost you $25.00 at Disney World).

They're not overcharging, no one is forcing you to buy anything. They're simply offering an item or a service to you at a price. If you want to go somewhere else and buy it for less (or choose to not buy it at all) than that's your choice. It's called the "free market".

I still have options to buy Google stock at the initial offering price of $85/share. It closed at $905/share yesterday. If I exercise my option to buy at $85 then sell it at $905 am I obviously overcharging the buyer? Is there some profit limit that you believe I should be allowed when selling my personal property?

Just because I have the ability to purchase goods below market price, it doesn't mean that I am overcharging when I sell my goods at the current market price. How much do you believe that Wal-Mart pays for those $20 bricks of .22's? Based on their purchase price, how much should they sell them for so they're not "obviously overcharging" by your standards?

If they are overpriced (I.E. I offer my Google stocks at $1,000/share), they obviously won't sell and the price will have to drop if I wish to sell them.

So we can blame the major ammo producers and retail stores for selling at doubld the prive or more since Nov of last year. Who is at fault for 52 cents a round WWB 45acp at Academy. I'm pretty sure it isn't some shooter.

Who is at fault for 52 cents a round WWB 45acp at Academy. I'm pretty sure it isn't some shooter.

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Actually, it is the shooters. If Academy had shelves full of $.52/round WWB 45ACP that wasn't selling and had been sitting there for some time, you can bet that the price would drop. Watch what happens with the price of their remaining summer items (bathing suits, swimming floats, etc) at the end of the summer.

So we can blame the major ammo producers and retail stores for selling at doubld the prive or more since Nov of last year. Who is at fault for 52 cents a round WWB 45acp at Academy. I'm pretty sure it isn't some shooter.

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You might to look at places around the world and see what the costs are - even at DOUBLE what we pay now, it is a bargain compared to most other places.

The ammo makers did not raise their prices, that occurred at the retail level and is based on supply and demand. All the places who did not react to the market pricing had their inventories wiped clean in short order and were not able to get any more at any price, while the folks who did raise them, had sufficient inventory to get customers into the store who really WANTED the ammo, and possibly other things related to shooting.

Where are these folks screaming gouging when the insurance company has raised their rates almost 50% to cover O'care and that isn't in effect yet; or the $8.00 pint of Bud at the ballpark, or the $9 tuna sandwich at the airport; or even the simple $1.69 20 oz Coke at the C-store?

If you folks think these guys are raking it in, quit your jobs and start making and selling ammo and retire early and rich.

So now it obvious Webster's Dictionary has no idea the meanings of words. OK!

Twist it however you wish, gouging is overpricing and vice versa.

Webster's is correct. However, it would appear that you have no comprehension of what "overpricing" means.

jcwit said:

Twist it however you wish, gouging is overpricing and vice versa.

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Is Wal-Mart gouging you or overpricing their ammo when they charge you $20.00 for that brick of .22's that currently cost them $6.00?

Exacly, people refuse to read and acknowledge ALL of the definition in the dictionary. As per the link I posted earlier in this thread, my dictionary says "when no alternative retailer is available" pretty hard
To argue that gouging on ammo is
Even possible!

If it was "overpriced", then it would not have sold.

guyfromohio said:

I think it will subside soon

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Yea they said it would be over in March then the June, July time frame yet its now the 11th of July and the ammo shortage is still with us. Hornoday is suspending production of some bullets and ammo and even after that action they say the have a 2 year backorder.

There are simply not enough of your so called flippers,gougers,horders that can cause such a demand spike. You also know the Remingtons, Federals and others of the world are in the same boat as Hornoday, multi year backlogs on ammo. The real cause for the shortage is the new demand from all of the new shooters who swelled our ranks at the end of last year and at the first of the year and those who join our ranks every single day. I will venture a guess that we have added 5,000,000+ new shooters to our ranks. Add new shooters and politics and bingo you have shortages and price increases.

There were no "made" shortages of either underwear or socks in order to increase prices to up to, and sometimes over, 100%.

justice06rr said:

You are more ignorant if you deny that there is no price gouging going on, as CTD did as a very specific example selling a $10 GI mag for $100. I bought a ton of GI mags from a friend in Dec for $8/each, and sold them for $20-25 during the panic--not $100.

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So when you make a profit of 150% to 213% on your $8 mag it's not price gouging, but if CTD tries to make 900% on their $10 mag that is price gouging?

Exactly what profit point constitutes gouging? Apparently you believe that 213% profit isn't gouging, so what is?

You kind of left out the bolding on one sentence in your second quote in post 56. Let me emphasize it for you:

In a free market system of course, no profits are “unreasonable,” and supporters of free-market capitalism point out that raising prices on goods in high demand is simply a savvy business move.

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oneounceload said:

That works well - IF you are Walmart, Target, or Home Depot - most small mom and pop shops cannot afford to carry merchandise they cannot make their margins on.

Maybe you should open your own retail store and sell goods at a loss to get customers in the door - then come back in a year and tell us how well you are doing. Small shops (and I owned one in a different genre) only put stuff on sale that doesn't move fast enough - inventory turns and margins drive the business - plain and simple

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I own an auto repair shop, so only slightly related. One thing I learned from offering loss leaders is, price shoppers show up for the deal and leave you for the next one. Price shoppers have no loyalty. So, if you're a big store with lots of choices, shoppers will have less reason to go elsewhere - plus the big names can lie claiming you save money on everything they sell and the gullible fall for it and stay put buying a cart of overpriced electronics after saving $1.00 off a pack of candy bars since they were "told" they were saving money. That simply doesn't work for us small guys. Shoppers will go door to door sucking up the deals leaving the small guys broke. The first time you offer primers at half price, shoppers will show up only buying your primers and go to Al's for a Glock on sale. And don't get me started about online shoppers comparing cheap imports to quality products.

justice06rr Shall we elaborate?

Wikipedia:.........The term is similar to profiteering but can be distinguished by being short-term and localized, and by a restriction to essentials such as food, clothing, shelter, medicine and equipment needed to preserve life, limb and property.

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Sorry, but unless the apocalypse is upon us or you are standing waist deep in zombies your ammunition needs aren't considered essentials as is food and water.

You are more ignorant if you deny that there is no price gouging going on, as CTD did as a very specific example selling a $10 GI mag for $100. I bought a ton of GI mags from a friend in Dec for $8/each, and sold them for $20-25 during the panic--not $100.

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Sorry, but you need to read what you cut and pasted. An AR magazine does not meet the standard of essential.

It can't be any more clearer.

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I agree, but I know what is/isn't price gouging.

Watch what happens with the price of their remaining summer items (bathing suits, swimming floats, etc) at the end of the summer.

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They price that into seasonal items. They know they're going to have to do that. Ammo folks have a certain amount that they WILL NOT be able to go under...they aint gonna give it away just because it sits there for awhile.

justice06rr said:

Shall we elaborate?

Wikipedia:


Wisegeek.com:

It can't be any more clearer.

You are more ignorant if you deny that there is no price gouging going on, as CTD did as a very specific example selling a $10 GI mag for $100. I bought a ton of GI mags from a friend in Dec for $8/each, and sold them for $20-25 during the panic--not $100.

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And yet I suppose you're perfectly OK with paying $12,000 for a thousand gallons of water that only costs you $3-$4 out of my tap, then?

Probably even complain about the exorbiant price of gasoline, without even going to far as to look into it enough to realize that, inflation adjusted, it's virtually the same price as what we paid for it in the early 80's.

Reselling a $10 magazine for $100 isn't gouging in the example you've given. Not by far.

45_auto said:

Obviously posted by someone who's never bought a soda or candy out of a vending machine ($.25 coke or candy bar at Wal-Mart will cost you $1.00), food or beverages at a sporting event ($.25 coke at Wal-Mart cost $6.00 at the NFL games here) , or a t-shirt at any tourist attraction ($5.00 T-shirt at Wal-Mart will cost you $25.00 at Disney World).

They're not overcharging, no one is forcing you to buy anything. They're simply offering an item or a service to you at a price. If you want to go somewhere else and buy it for less (or choose to not buy it at all) than that's your choice. It's called the "free market".

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True... There are other choices so this isn't gouging. However, when scumbags go in hoards to buy out the shelves so there is no more in stock while attempting to keep others from doing so according to posts here and elsewhere, then jack it up, THAT'S gouging regardless of your definition source as there are no other choices due to their own practices. I question some here defending it wondering if they're guilty and trying to sleep better at night? No one in particular, but the arguing does get me to wonder.

One guy complained about the high price, but bought ten 50rnd/boxes of WWB 9mm @ $30 each. Guess who had a table at the Dallas Market Hall gun show selling the very ammunition he bought from me? Yep, and he had marked it up another 25%.

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maybe there's still hope for America, that is IF the price control, we need fairness socialists can be beaten back. Price gouging on ammo? nope pay it don't pay it you're still free to do so.

Now when .gov starts infringing by adding punitive taxes on ammo then it will be time for righteous indignation.

KMatch said:

True... There are other choices so this isn't gouging. However, when scumbags go in hoards to buy out the shelves so there is no more in stock while attempting to keep others from doing so according to posts here and elsewhere, then jack it up, THAT'S gouging regardless of your definition source as there are no other choices due to their own practices. I question some here defending it wondering if they're guilty and trying to sleep better at night? No one in particular, but the arguing does get me to wonder.

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This is false guy! You can't just change the dictionary definition be cause you don't like it!!!!