WI:Appleton Officers Violate Rights of Two Open Carriers on Tape

The graphic is technically correct in that MA does not have a law against open carry. However, in MA a license is required to possess a firearm, and MA is a "shall issue" state, meaning licensure is up to the discretion of the issuing authority (in this case, the local Chief of Police). The CoP can revoke licensure at their discretion if s/he believes the licensee to be "unsuitable" to possess a firearm, and it's widely believed that if a MA licensee ever opened carried, it would result in an immediate revocation under this policy.

I've always wondered how many other states' gun owners have this anvil hanging over their heads.

larryh1108 said:

The only thing gained is self-satisfaction and sometimes that undermines what is best for all of us. I see no other reason to do it other than you can. It seems like another attention-getting youtube wannabe to me.

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So, if the officers are reprimanded for their unlawful violation of citizens' rights with the goal of deterring them from violating other citizens' rights, you don't see that as a benefit to be gained? Shoud the officers just be allowed to continue to violate citizens rights because to take action to record their behavior "undermines what is best for all of us?" It's easy to claim that so long as it isn't your rights that are being violated, isn't it?

hmm

Interesting audio yakkin.....unfortunately, relatively clueless PD. "Walking towards a crowded farmer's market..."? Good god...

stressed said:

Wait.. guys, would I have a case?

A couple of weeks ago I was pulled over. (pulled me over for "suspicious driving" I'm not even sure what that is, I was following all road laws.

Anyway, came up, asked if there was any weapons. "I say ".22 rifle cased in back." He says I'm gonna have to seach your vehicle, check if that rifle is cased, do you mind?

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Depends a lot on the state it occurred in.

Whether or not these guys went out hoping for a reaction or not, their behavior in absolutely no way qualifies the officers' behavior. When no laws are broken, common citizens shouldn't be treated as criminals. This "investigation" is the very definition of the term "fishing expedition" and their behavior should bring disgrace to their dept

stressed said:

I wait about half an hour to 45 min. Guy comes up to me and asks "If i'm paranoid and think someone is out to get me"

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I would likely have responded...yes. Someone is out to get me.....YOU!!!!

Just as long as those officers go home safe at night, right? Isn't that the usual excuse?

To those who feel people should not be open carrying rifles:

"The Right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" Was that word pistols? No. Handguns? No. Arms. Don't like it or think it's not necessary? I hear Australia's nice this time of year..

Seek a lawyers professional advice, not the internet. You might have a case.

zxcvbob said:

This surprises you? Where have you been for the past 10 years or so?

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Surprised? No! Not even shocked, just disgusted!

I didn't indicate surprise, because this type of intimidation by goons wearing law enforcement uniforms is so common as to be unremarkable.

Don't get me wrong, there are good, even great cops out there, I have even known a few of them. But their numbers are shrinking as the twin evils of the militarization of the police continue, and the increasing meme of "compliance" continues to gain acceptance in our culture.

Both are an anathema to a society that once valued individuality and independence.

I have suffered at the hands of Jack Booted Thugs that didn't like my "Attitude", so this incident is not unexpected, but still scary and disgusting!

As someone else stated, I can see wrong on both sides.

While I understand that these gentlemen were fully within their rights, I can't help but think of the phrase "just because you can, doesn't mean you should."

I think most folks realize that carrying long guns around town is probably going to do little more than attract negative attention to both yourself and other gun owners. What exactly were these guys trying to accomplish, besides recording a good video?

I've seen more than a few YouTube videos of fellas who open carry seemingly for the single purpose of baiting a cop into saying or doing something stupid. There's no other reason I can think of for walking around with a gun and a camera rolling.

I guess I feel as if a person goes out and looks hard enough, they'll find it. In this case these fellas seemed to want attention and a police encounter. Well, they got it.

If these guys simply wanted to carry a gun for protection and go about their business, conceal it and move on.

Like I said before, just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

S&W620 said:

Like I said before, just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

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Still beside the point.

Now laws were being broken (except perhaps by the cops). So the cops shouldn't have gotten involved.

S&W620 said:

While I understand that these gentlemen were fully within their rights, I can't help but think of the phrase "just because you can, doesn't mean you should."

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What's next, "just because you can criticize the government, doesn't mean you should"? Or "just because you can refuse to a search without a warrant, doesn't mean you should"?

There are very few places where it is illegal.

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Yep, the map has OK as open carry with a concealed carry permit. i can guarntee that a person who openly carries a rifle on the street in Oklahoma City, Lawton or Tulsa will be stopped by the police.

Some those who openly carry rifles are trolling for a reaction by the local police. They do our cause no good.

HexHead said:

What's next, "just because you can criticize the government, doesn't mean you should"? Or "just because you can refuse to a search without a warrant, doesn't mean you should"?

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Sure.

I don't see the need to resist any and everything simply because I can. If I'm driving and get pulled over and the cop asks to look in my trunk, have at it. I'm not concerned about some dude checking out my tire iron and jack. I'm a law abiding citizen and have nothing to hide.

Same goes for criticizing the government. I see no real point in wasting my breath most of the time.

HOOfan_1 said:

Still beside the point.

Now laws were being broken (accept perhaps by the cops). So the cops shouldn't have gotten involved.

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Never said laws were broken or that cops should have gotten involved, but I think the plethora of videos on YouTube showing pretty much this exact scenario would indicate that there was a pretty high chance this would happen.

Bottom line, at least for me, is that these guys were attention seeking and pretty much trying to bait a cop into doing something they shouldn't have. I'm all for guns and carry and such, obviously, but, to me, this is pushing the limits of what most folks would call sensible.

From a 'tactical' standpoint, I can't see one positive other than to paint a giant bullseye on yourself for any and all to see.

As someone else stated, I can see wrong on both sides.

While I understand that these gentlemen were fully within their rights, I can't help but think of the phrase "just because you can, doesn't mean you should."

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Argue about "cop baiting" and so forth while your rights are legislated away. We're in this situation because we have allowed government to abuse the Constitution. They're abusing the Commerce Clause to justify the Gun Control Act of 1968. We wouldn't have to "cop bait" if the police were staying within the limits of their authority and the legislature weren't setting citizens at odds with the police.

The real problem with Americans is that we're judgmental <removed> who demand others behave as we think best. You would do well to relearn what a right is.

S&W620 said:

Bottom line, at least for me, is that these guys were attention seeking and pretty much trying to bait a cop into doing something they shouldn't have. I'm all for guns and carry and such, obviously, but, to me, this is pushing the limits of what most folks would call sensible.

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I am concerned with the Police recognizing and following the laws, not with who is concerned with whatever legal activities that I am involved in. "Baiting" does not apply to public servants that don't like to recognize legal activities.

tomrkba said:

Argue about "cop baiting" and so forth while your rights are legislated away. We're in this situation because we have allowed government to abuse the Constitution. They're abusing the Commerce Clause to justify the Gun Control Act of 1968. We wouldn't have to "cop bait" if the police were staying within the limits of their authority and the legislature weren't setting citizens at odds with the police.

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I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

From a 'tactical' standpoint, I can't see one positive other than to paint a giant bullseye on yourself for any and all to see.

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Kinda like how that white stripe down a skunk's back draws attention.

Well, S&W620, you demand others not express their rights in the same way that you do.

I am not crazy about rifle open carry either, but I will not use the law, advocate for a law, or use social pressure to stop it. It is not my business and despite these people are engaging in what I believe to be a mistake, it is their right. I don't like it, but I will defend their right to do it. That is the difference between us, S&W620. I understand and defend rights even if I don't like it.

tomrkba said:

Well, S&W620, you demand others not express their rights in the same way that you do.

I am not crazy about rifle open carry either, but I will not use the law, advocate for a law, or use social pressure to stop it. It is not my business and despite these people are engaging in what I believe to be a mistake, it is their right. I don't like it, but I will defend their right to do it. That is the difference between us, S&W620. I understand and defend rights even if I don't like it.

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Pump the brakes pal, I haven't demanded a thing, simply stated my opinion, which is pretty much the point of these discussions, right?

As far as it being their right, I believe that was pretty much my first comment on the subject.

Finally, you know nothing about me based on 4 posts on THR, other than I think carrying a rifle around town is dumb, but I appreciate your attempt.

zxcvbob said:

Kinda like how that white stripe down a skunk's back draws attention.

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That stripe doesn't seem to bother many owls.

I do like the wildlife references though.

Just so I'm clear here, how many of you folks open carry a long gun around town?