Gun toters want cops to holster harassment

Status
Not open for further replies.

ZMP_CTR

Member
Joined
May 15, 2007
Messages
252
West Valley City
Gun toters want cops to holster harassment
By María Villaseñor
The Salt Lake Tribune
Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated:06/18/2008 01:32:14 AM MDT
WEST VALLEY CITY - With his Smith & Wesson .40-caliber semi-automatic holstered on his right hip, Travis Deveraux addressed the mayor and City Council on Tuesday.
Deveraux says he has been harassed by West Valley City police for carrying that gun and treated like a criminal.
"A criminal does not want [police] attention, and they will not openly carry a gun," Deveraux said.
With 10 other gun-toting civilians - who came from as far as Bountiful, Santaquin and Lehi - to support him, Deveraux told the council that their police department has consistently overreacted to his gun carrying. And in one occasion last year, he said, the police officers violated his civil rights.
Deveraux said he was walking around his neighborhood to exercise last December, when he was stopped by a Granite School District officer and "informed that if I touched my gun, I would be killed." The officer called West Valley City Police Department, Deveraux said, three squad cars arrived, and he was detained and his gun taken from him - then, after a few minutes, he was released.
Those were violations of his federal and state constitutional rights, said the Swede who became an American citizen this January.
And they are civil rights abuses that he has only encountered in West Valley City, Deveraux said.
"I don't blame them for being a little bit extra careful," he said, noting that the crime rate is high in Utah's second largest city, "but there's a line they crossed between being a little bit careful and a little bit too careful."
Assistant Police Chief Craig Black said he hadn't been aware of the incident involving Deveraux until hearing about it at the City Council meeting. He said there would be a review of the case by the professional standards board to determined what happened.
Matt Murray, of North Salt Lake, said he has never been bothered by any police officers for openly carrying his gun. Kevin Jensen, of Santaquin, said he has had a few police encounters that were "very professional . . . they just want to make sure you're not a nutcase." But Lehi resident Jeramiah McDonald said he has had problems similar to Deveraux's.
McDonald said that because he is only 19, he can't apply for a concealed-weapons permit and his only option is to openly carry his guns.
Because he felt police officers violated his civil rights, McDonald filed a lawsuit.
Deveraux said he doesn't want to sue anyone, or get an officer fired or fined. He wants West Valley City officers to be trained, or receive more training on gun rights.
Mayor Dennis Nordfelt encouraged Deveraux to file a complaint with the professional standards review board, which oversees any resident problems with the police department.
Black said his officers are trained on gun laws.



Utah gun laws

* Openly carried guns do not require a permit, but the firearm must be two maneuvers from being shot.
* Concealed weapons require a permit, the gun can be fully loaded and ready to fire.
* Open carry and concealed weapons are not permitted in courthouses, mental health facilities or airports.


http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_9619863
 
They are talking about the Utah legal definition of unloaded. Which for any gun is "two mechanical actions away from firing."

For an autoloader that would be:

1. Racking the slide to chamber and cock.
2. Pulling the trigger.

For a DA revolver you would have to be able to pull the trigger once, and then once more to fire. (two empty cylinders.) For Single Action, you could carry with fully loaded cylinders:

1. Cock
2. Pull trigger.

Make sense? Basically you can carry an autoloader with a full magazine, as long as there isn't one in the chamber and it's considered "Utah unloaded."
 
No, Utah requires Non-CFP holders to carry openly and unloaded but ONLY when they are on a public street. If you have a CFP, you may carry openly, and loaded.

If you don't have a CFP and are say, in the backcountry, or a rural area, you may carry openly and loaded.
 
mr.trooper,
If my memory serves the reason I was told the IDF does this because Israel was tasked with getting a defense force together with a monumental hodge podge of small arms. So much so that it became more expedient to train the IDF to draw and rack rather than to train all of them on the mechanical functions of every potential sidearm they may have been given.

I believe I read this on the internnets somewhere so I won't vouch for the veracity of the statement.

Even if true, Just because the IDF does something it still lends no credence to the idea that Utah requiring it to be done this way is more logical or "safer" than the alternative of loaded chamber carry. Or, even that the IDF should still be doing it.
 
Last edited:
So I wonder if the grip and thumb safety would count as two actions on a 1911?

That I'm not sure of. I'm pretty sure the grip safety wouldn't count, as the physical act of gripping the gun is not counted at all.

But I've wondered if a cocked and locked 1911 meets the definition.

1. Flip off the safety
2. Pull the trigger.

I'd have to ask someone more knowledgable.
 
I also wondered about a 1911 -- or, for that matter, any semi-auto that has a manual safety. If cocking the hammer is one "operation" and pulling the trigger is a second, then manually deactivating a mechanical safety should be one operation and pulling the trigger a second operation,.
 
Deveraux said he doesn't want to sue anyone, or get an officer fired or fined.

Well, thats mistake number one.

Its like training a mule, a waste of time unless you smash him over the head to get his attention first.

Once cities start losing money and anti-gun officers start ending up on welfare, then he will have their attention.

-T
 
I wonder if drawing and cocking a SAA would count as "two maneuvers".

I mean, you can't just draw one, aim, and pull the trigger. And the round that fires isn't under the hammer or lined up with the barrel when the gun is in the holster and un-cocked.

Never mind... I see that was answered up the thread a ways and I just missed it.

J.C.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top