WI:Appleton Officers Violate Rights of Two Open Carriers on Tape
- Thread starter Dean Weingarten
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PavePusher
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No reason for you to be speaking in public or voting either, amIright?
The Sons of Liberty made American Colonists look like whiny attention seeking zealots...
Don't all protestors and lobbyists seek attention???
Would I do it myself? Nope, not yet, I live in a fairly firearm friendly state...but if I were in a place like Colorado or New York and the government kept pushing and pushing....maybe some display of resolve would be necessary.
Can what they are doing negatively effect gun rights? Sure....if we allow it.
If we sit back and do nothing, and shake our finger at the way other people choose to express their freedoms, those freedoms can be eroded just as easily.
Speaking eloquently an voting will actually do positive things for gun owners and our rights.
Carrying a rifle around waiting for cops to show up doesn't.
Wrong.
The Appleton P.D. had a positive scenario with these guys, though the P.D. was uneducated overall on policy/procedure/2A. Now, there are probably 10-20 Officers there who NOW know that there was nothing illegal going on, AND a D.C. ticket WILL yield a lawsuit. THAT is much more powerful than WAITING for November or sending another hopeful check to the NRA. IMHO...
PavePusher
Member
Just because you can sit at a lunch counter if your skin is dark, doesn't mean you should, amIright?
I trust the parallels are obvious....
PavePusher
Member
Exactly the 'arguments' the Anti's use. Interesting tactic.....
Fortunately nobody else needs to give you a reason for why they choose to do something that is perfectly lawful.
PavePusher
Member
Huh? Who was shooting?
No, they did not have probable cause.
mgkdrgn
Member
just 10???
Probable cause to check them out...sure.
Probable cause to handcuff and detain...NOPE!!
zxcvbob
Member
I think the bar is only "reasonable suspicion based on specific and articulable facts"
...but they didn't have that either.
(that's as hard to say as "indubitably")
...but they didn't have that either.
(that's as hard to say as "indubitably")
Some of you guys need to look up these two things:
RAS (reasonable articuable suspicion)
PC (probable cause)
They are very different things.
And I fail to see how LE had either.
Remember the part that comes after RAS or PC is 'that a crime was, is, or is about to be committed'
And no, that asinine "we don't know they aren't breaking the law" crap doesn't fly. LE doesn't get to so much as stop and detain somebody just to see if maybe they are breaking a law. Kinda like they can't pull you over just to see if you have a driver license, and kinda like how they can't just search your residence to make sure you aren't hiding a random dead body.
RAS (reasonable articuable suspicion)
PC (probable cause)
They are very different things.
And I fail to see how LE had either.
Remember the part that comes after RAS or PC is 'that a crime was, is, or is about to be committed'
And no, that asinine "we don't know they aren't breaking the law" crap doesn't fly. LE doesn't get to so much as stop and detain somebody just to see if maybe they are breaking a law. Kinda like they can't pull you over just to see if you have a driver license, and kinda like how they can't just search your residence to make sure you aren't hiding a random dead body.
Jackal
Member
On one hand I can sort of see the police viewpoint on this, they dont want the hassle of taking all the calls they WILL get over something like this. However, they are there to enforce the law. Period. If what they were doing was lawful (which it was), the police have no business even stopping them. These two fellows did not even legally need to present their ID or answer any questions. The old standby "Have I broken the law?" & "Am I free to go?"
orionengnr
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Then the police need to help educate the public.
"Officer, there's a man with a gun!"
"What is he doing, ma'am?"
"He's walking down the street...but he has a gun!"
"That is perfectly legal, ma'am. Have a nice day."
Click.
I can foresee two really bad cases of PTSD coming on.
Being confronted at gunpoint, handcuffed and being put in the back
of a hot and smelly police car,.......
Also there are some places where motorists routine put dashcams in their vehicles to document "fake automobile accidents" it is actually pretty inexpensive to cover your vehicle from inside going around 360degrees with these. Might be helpful if you are a committed "long gun open carry activist."
Being confronted at gunpoint, handcuffed and being put in the back
of a hot and smelly police car,.......
Also there are some places where motorists routine put dashcams in their vehicles to document "fake automobile accidents" it is actually pretty inexpensive to cover your vehicle from inside going around 360degrees with these. Might be helpful if you are a committed "long gun open carry activist."
Not really.
Black folks were sitting for rights they didn't have.
We have the right to walk around with a rifle. I'm debating the purpose, intent and need for such a show.
Not remotely close to the same situation.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
As these folks showed. What difference does it make if they have to spend 45 minutes in handcuffs if they exercise that right? I mean, they're free to do it...if they don't mind being detained in cuffs. Sounds like freedom to me!
Amen, Sam.
I'm tired of hearing...and from regulars on gun forums no less!...that we have a "right" to X example of RKBA...but we should expect to be disarmed and detained (if not arrested) by armed government agents if we do it...and just shouldn't do it.
This "you have a right to do it, but you can't do it" thing is just, uh...
I mean...WHAT?
Are we free to do so? Sure.
Does that mean it'll be easy? No.
Were they looking for such a confrontation? You decide.
Most states offer a CCW program that would afford the individual similar protection while virtually eliminating these encounters.
Open carrying a rifle, while lawful, is nothing more than an invitation to harassment from local PD's, whether right or wrong.
Amen, Sam.
I'm tired of hearing...and from regulars on gun forums no less!...that we have a "right" to X example of RKBA...but we should expect to be disarmed and detained (if not arrested) by armed government agents if we do it...and just shouldn't do it.
This "you have a right to do it, but you can't do it" thing is just, uh...
I mean...WHAT?
So..as pro 2A folks we should simply agree with you to make things easier for you to debate?
Reality is what it is. Do as you choose, but, please don't bitch about the end result when you've seen the same situation play out time and time again.
All due respect.
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