Things you have been possibly "misinformed" on

There must be a different species of coyote than the ones we have as our state animal here in South Dakota

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Actually people have come to believe there is a new breed of coyotes called the eastern coyote. The idea is they have crossbred with wolves making them bigger and more aggressive than what is now called a western coyote, which is the traditional coyote. It is said by some that eastern coyotes are a lot more apt to attack humans than the western coyote. Most of this information has some proof behind it apparently. The thing about coyote attacks on humans is that both species have increased their attacks on humans with California being the state with the most recorded attacks. They only have the western coyotes there. With the expanding populations of the coyotes and the loss of habitat they come in contact with humans more and the PC, animal rights types actually feed the critters. In the past rural wackos (as we would be described by city folk) hunted and harassed coyotes nearly to extinction giving them a healthy fear of humans. They are losing that fear because of the fact that harassing any animal is severely frowned on not just by the public in general but by government types too.

The place I lived up until a few months ago was infested with the critters and no one seemed to care. They would circle the 10 acres I lived on all night long. There must have been about 20 of them. They would come within maybe 100 yards of my house when they circled by which made me fear for my pets not to mention my wife getting into the car to go to work in the morning. I intended to try to shoot some of them but there were too many houses in the area to safely shoot at them with a long range rifle. I would have had to try to get close to them and that isn't easy. The only good way I would have had to shoot them would have been to sit in an upstairs room with the window open and shoot at them from about 250 yards. The thing about that is it can be really hard on the hearing.

I've only seen one coyote where I live now and I actually had him in my crosshairs but I didn't have any ammo in the rifle at the time. I was adjusting the AO on the scope to shoot that coyote over the leftover Thanksgiving turkey I had left out as bait. The thing showed up within 5 minutes of me baiting him. But I haven't seen him since then and I've only heard coyotes a few times since and they weren't that close. I watch for that sucker every day too. I'll get a shot at him some day. I need to bait him again I guess.

While looking at some ($300-to-$400) cheap 1911's at a gun show (20 years ago), I was informed that 1911's stamped with "Property of U.S. Government" were guns stolen from the military.......so I didn't buy any.

I'll believe the "eastern coyote" theory when DNA results shows "wolf" DNA in these coyotes. If they exist, it should be easy enough to prove with modern science.

I was misinformed about this thread...........I thought it was about guns, not coyotes.

Misinformation on Wall Ballistics:

Buckshot penetrates walls less than any centerfire rifled round
Slugs penetrate less than pistol bullets (I've actually heard this one, yes)
9mm and other pistol rounds penetrate less than all 223/5.56 rounds
5.56 FMJ penetrates less than 9mm hollow point or frangible
5.7x28 won't go through 3/8" sheetrock
At various times I've heard/read all the above are not capable of killing a friendly on the far side of an interior sheetrocked wall (surprisingly they do not recommend sheetrock body armor )

TCB

dogtown tom said:

6. In addition to your own state, you can buy rifles and shotguns only in a contiguous state.

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this was true here, up in till last week. Gov. Walker just signed a new law that will allow us to buy long guns in any other state , and from what I read some states still don't let you buy long guns outside of neighboring states , and I thought we always could , glad I didn't

Other misconceptions:

That an alternate cartridge for the AR15 delivers the same ballistics as the .308 with a smaller powder charge and lighter bullet. No, not the one we are most familiar with, a new one using the same spreadsheet data layout to proclaim itself the new "should be our military's choice."

Come on guys, it's about marketing. Baffle them with BS.

In CCW, that the cocked and locked method of carry will get you shot when the safety is accidentally swiped off. Question - why is your finger on the trigger before you even get it out of the holster, and how do you get it there, too? And if it's so bad, then why even carry a DA since the first thing happening is to jam your finger in the holster before you even withdraw it?

Or, speed of the draw is paramount when you are in danger. As if you can blithely ignore everything in the environment as an indicator of something going bad, and rely entirely on your lightning fast reflexes because you noticed something suddenly out of place. Back up there, it's likely you should have noticed it long before and could have been prepared.

Or, that X type of carry will get you killed. Small of back, shoulder holster, ankle holster are all getting that kind of trash talk, which is strange, because they were all methods of carry used by urban LEO's in plain clothes for decades and nobody saw the incredible dangers. No, what we have now are range competitors who preach belt carry only and who never actually worked deep cover or had a lifestyle where they didn't need to sit in a car. There is no one perfect answer for everyone, and the bra holster should be more than ample evidence. You and I can't use it, others can very effectively.

Or - surprised this old chestnut wasn't trotted out - that GUNS KILL. Well so do baseball bats and hammers, I've yet to see one sit up and go after some innocent victim. The concept is so ridiculous somebody webcams a gun sitting in the corner and it has yet to shoot anyone. Please note the school incident of the month is now focusing on a youth who stabbed a number of students with two kitchen knives, and that a group of Chinese were attacked by sword wielding terrorists.

A lot of these aren't misconceptions as much as outright lies foisted on us by those with agendas.

Tirod said:

Other misconceptions:


Or - surprised this old chestnut wasn't trotted out - that GUNS KILL. Well so do baseball bats and hammers, I've yet to see one sit up and go after some innocent victim. The concept is so ridiculous somebody webcams a gun sitting in the corner and it has yet to shoot anyone. Please note the school incident of the month is now focusing on a youth who stabbed a number of students with two kitchen knives, and that a group of Chinese were attacked by sword wielding terrorists.

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Uh.... No one believes guns spontaneously jump up off the table and kill people. Yes, that is ridiculous and the only people I have ever heard talk about it are pro-gun people ascribing that view to others. Never actually seen an anti gun person say it. If anything, this is a pro-gun myth/story created to make antis look bad.

What anti gun people DO say is that guns make it much EASIER to kill people, which is true.

Take your example of the stabbing attack in PA. 22 victims, zero deaths. Pretty sure if he had gone on a five minute shooting rampage with two guns instead of two knives, there would be a different outcome. Guns increase lethality in all situations.

That "hard cast" is anything other than a marketing term.

You can't shoot lead out of your Glock safely.

It's impossible to shoot lead bullets without leading.


Cat

Pizzapinochle said:

Uh.... No one believes guns spontaneously jump up off the table and kill people. Yes, that is ridiculous and the only people I have ever heard talk about it are pro-gun people ascribing that view to others. Never actually seen an anti gun person say it. If anything, this is a pro-gun myth/story created to make antis look bad.

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If only that were true.

I have seen many people jump up from their seat in fear at the mere presence of a gun sitting on a table. I have told people that I own guns only to have then back away, like my proximity to guns has somehow infected me with a communicable disease. Yes, ‘no one believes guns spontaneously jump up off the table and kill people’ but there are plenty of people that truly believe that guns spontaneously ‘go off’. There are even more people that have an irrational fear of the gun itself, vice the person holding the gun. When antis say ‘guns kill’ (and yes, they do say this all the time, be it in person, on bumper stickers, posters, etc...), they are imparting some (if not all) blame on the gun itself… as if criminals wouldn't kill if not for guns.

What anti gun people DO say is that guns make it much EASIER to kill people, which is true.

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Even if we take this as fact, it still detracts from the real issue; why do people kill.

Focusing in on the gun as the problem takes so many resources and so much time away from dealing with the real issue, society will never be able find a solution.

7. When you fill out a 4473 at your dealer, it "registers" the gun to you.
8. AR lowers are registered as handguns or rifles on the 4473.

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Depends on the lower. A complete lower with a full stock shipped from the manufacturer would be a rifle wouldn't it? If it were stripped that would be different. A stripped lower would be recorded as other wouldn't it? (I've bought a few and that's how they were recorded).

When you fill out a 4473 it doesn't technically "register" it to you but it does put you in the chain of paperwork. Let's say it's an ACME made gun. They would contact ACME and see which distributor it was sold to. Then they would contact the distributor and see which shop that was sold to. Then they would contact the shop and see which individual it was sold to. While it's indirect there is still a way to track down that gun. To me that is a registry. It's not a fantastic one but it works. With computers that type of search is even faster. It stops working well when it comes to private sales (if the state that gun is in allows that).

JSH1 said:

None of them seemed to think that gun laws in the UK were overly restrictive.

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That's the problem.

26 years after semi-auto rifles were banned
and
17 years after handguns were banned

....these restrictions become the new and accepted norm. Meanwhile there are still plenty of shootings in, e.g., London.

A good reason to not concede an inch to those politicians who want to take away our hobby.

It's not the taking away of a "hobby" that galls me. It's the taking away of a "right" guaranteed to us by the highest law of the land.

8. AR lowers are registered as handguns or rifles on the 4473.

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Not too many years ago you did have to declare "rifle or pistol" when you bought a stripped lower, but now they are recored as "other"

They would contact ACME and see which distributor it was sold to. Then they would contact the distributor and see which shop that was sold to. Then they would contact the shop and see which individual it was sold to. While it's indirect there is still a way to track down that gun. To me that is a registry. It's not a fantastic one but it works.

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This is exactly how the rifle that killed Kennedy was traced to Oswald, despite the lack of computers. It would work even better now just using "normal business" records instead of the ridiculous laws and regulations we have now.

....these restrictions become the new and accepted norm. Meanwhile there are still plenty of shootings in, e.g., London.

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The conversation took place in 2004 during my first business trip to Europe. This was before I learned I had to take a lot of what I heard about life in Europe with a huge grain of salt.

There are still shootings in the UK but very few. The UK had a total of 33 firearm deaths in 2010, that is 0.25 gun related deaths per 100,000 people and 70% of them were suicides.

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-kingdom

How about, you can open carry, but if you conceal carry and it's revealed, you have committed an offense under the law punishable under statute?

A misconception coded into enforcement. Really? And we have to go back and fix the law so that an accidental loss of concealment is no longer a criminal offense?

Lets look at it the other way - if you open carry and the gun is accidentally concealed for a few seconds, does that constitute an infraction? Why can we open carry all the time, legally, where someone who conceal carries needs to be certified, registered, fingerprinted, and their type of handgun spelled out in the licence?

What we are legalizing is a prohibition based on some myth that the intent is evil, when the reality is we aren't trying to spook the oversensitive who don't have a need to know. Neither carrier is no more likely than the other to suddenly go off shooting the crowd - except the actual shooters, who would be better off seeing us openly carrying as a deterrent. Which they do, and only pick victim zones to go on their rampage. They use concealment to amplify their intent to surprise, we use concealment to prevent it and keep disturbance to a minimum.

So the issue of concealed carry by permit is really prior restraint, and it only legalizes those who go to the effort, who aren't the ones causing the problem.

It's a huge misconception, and it's reinforced by authorities and politicians to make the public feel good about their safety.

Tirod said:

Lets look at it the other way - if you open carry and the gun is accidentally concealed for a few seconds, does that constitute an infraction? Why can we open carry all the time, legally, where someone who conceal carries needs to be certified, registered, fingerprinted, and their type of handgun spelled out in the license ?

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this is how some myths get started , this may be true in MO and some other places, but not everywhere, I have a CCW card , I did not get fingerprinted and my card dose not say what gun type I may carry , I can carry any handgun I want, and my CCW card allows me to carry in more places than I could if I open carried , like with in school zones (but not on school grounds) , in bars ( but not If I'm drinking ) so HERE you can't open carry all the time legally.

This is exactly how the rifle that killed Kennedy was traced to Oswald, despite the lack of computers. It would work even better now just using "normal business" records instead of the ridiculous laws and regulations we have now.

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True....even some grocery stores could tell you how many cans of soup you bought in the last 10 years, the dates and times they were bought, which brand you purchased, and how you paid for it.

We're also kidding ourselves if we think there really isn't an illegal registry somewhere. Between info relayed in NICS, the BATFE using scanners to scan 4473s, firearms transactions using credit cards, online purchases, etc etc. Our info is all over the place and it can be easily compiled.

WestKentucky said:

Hydrashok ammo is the end-all defense ammo.

One friend fired off a warning shot at a phantom in his apartment bedroom. That bullet went through 9 walls and 2 studs at varying angles and ended up in the bathtub undeformed.

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I'm sorry, which of those two statements is the misinformation?

And did it kill the phantom? (That is what matters.)

atomd

Quote:
7. When you fill out a 4473 at your dealer, it "registers" the gun to you.
8. AR lowers are registered as handguns or rifles on the 4473.

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Depends on the lower.

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No, it doesn't. Read the instructions to Que.18 on the 4473.

A complete lower with a full stock shipped from the manufacturer would be a rifle wouldn't it?

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Since 1934, federal law has defined a rifle as having a stock AND a barrel. A complete AR lower with stock doesn't have a barrel.......therefore not a rifle.

If it were stripped that would be different. A stripped lower would be recorded as other wouldn't it? (I've bought a few and that's how they were recorded).

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ALL frames and receivers are "Other Firearm" on a 4473.....even if they can only be made into a rifle or handgun. A 1911 frame is not a handgun.....it's an "Other Firearm".

When you fill out a 4473 it doesn't technically "register" it to you but it does put you in the chain of paperwork.

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And that chain ends with the first transaction between nonlicensees. It is a record of sale from a dealer to a customer.

Let's say it's an ACME made gun. They would contact ACME and see which distributor it was sold to. Then they would contact the distributor and see which shop that was sold to. Then they would contact the shop and see which individual it was sold to. While it's indirect there is still a way to track down that gun.

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Really?
And how will they track a gun last sold by a dealer in 1988? Dealers can destroy their 4473's after 25 years.
How will they track a gun bought from a dealer in 2013, a subsequently sold by the customer to a nonlicensee?

To me that is a registry.

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Ask any of our brethren in states with REAL registration if its anything like a 4473. State or local government that have REAL registration record EVERY transfer of possession between residents of their state. In some cases requiring a permit to purchase BEFORE acquiring the gun.

It's a bit of a stretch to say that the government registers firearms when I HAVE THE 4473's.

Get caught in possession of an unregistered firearm in some jurisdictions you'll go to jail. When was the last time the Feds prosecuted someone for possession of a Title I gun that was "unregistered"?

It's not a fantastic one but it works. With computers that type of search is even faster. It stops working well when it comes to private sales (if the state that gun is in allows that).

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Sorry to bust your bubble, but ATF firearm traces are not computerized. I've done a few and it's NOT computerized, it's only as accurate as the info submitted by the requesting agency. My last two ATF traces:
1. Kahr MP6 9mm pistol (ain't no such gun.....someone is dyslexic, Kahr makes a PM9, but not a MP6)
2. Cugir AK pistol (bought NEW from Centerfire Systems and transferred to my customer a year after a similar gun with the same serial number was reported stolen in North Carolina. Seems the victim or the officer who entered the serial number didn't enter the correct serial# into NCIC)

So, yeah, it's a fantastic system.

I was mostly self-taught, pre-internet. My pop was a shooter and taight me the fundamentals at a young age, but he slowed down as I came into my own. As a result, I rarely had the opportunity to be mis-informed... I had to settle for exhaustive trial & error.

It was tough being a kid at the gun range during a time period when there were no other teenagers shooting, AND the range masters were salty old men considered too mean to be Marine Drill Instructors.

wally

Quote:
8. AR lowers are registered as handguns or rifles on the 4473.

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Not too many years ago you did have to declare "rifle or pistol" when you bought a stripped lower, but now they are recored as "other"

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And that was incorrect. While Federal law essentially remained the same, the 4473 only had "Long Gun", "Handgun" or "Both" s options on "Question 18 Type of Firearm"...........It only took ATF a few decades to realize that transactions of receivers and frames didn't fit those choices. they corrected the 4473 in 2008.

Quote:
They would contact ACME and see which distributor it was sold to. Then they would contact the distributor and see which shop that was sold to. Then they would contact the shop and see which individual it was sold to. While it's indirect there is still a way to track down that gun. To me that is a registry. It's not a fantastic one but it works.

Click to expand...

This is exactly how the rifle that killed Kennedy was traced to Oswald, despite the lack of computers. It would work even better now just using "normal business" records instead of the ridiculous laws and regulations we have now.

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And that trace was done WITHOUT a 4473...........the 4473, FFL system and Gun Control Act were still five years away.

Believing "normal business records" would be just as good is funny. Not a week goes by that I don't receive a gun with no customer information inside. My most aggravating instance was with Springfield Armory who shipped me an XDs with no customer name. It took FOUR MONTHS and no less than six phone calls to figure out who the transferee was.

A long time ago I was misinformed that you could determine the Relative Stopping Power of a pistol bullet using the formula:

Bullet Weight x Bullet Velocity x Bullet Sectional Area

In my defense, I was very young and inexperience, and the misinformation came from a still well respected source.