What is the .25acp capable of?

I have a Beretta 950 in .25acp. I carry Hornady or Winchester defense ammo. That's right there is defense ammo for the .25acp, and it works.

I have shot a large number of Nutria with .22lr hp and .25acp defense loads. The critters shot with the .22 required several shots. The ones shot with the .25 were all one shot kills.

No, it ain't a large caliber pistol, but will do the job.
Of course the .25acp would not be my first choice for defense, but I ain't sceered to carry one.

Believe what you want, 'cause you will any way.

Gun Master said:

Do you still have the Ortgies buyer's address and phone# ?

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You vastly over estimate my intelligence by asking.

Because of my cogitating early I looked at barrel/bullet diameters. Turns out the .25-35 and .25-36 are also like the other "modern" .25s all .257.

Only barrel specs that were listed as .251, like the .25 acp, were the ancient Stevens .25 Rim Fires.

Cant imagine finding a shootable one to shoot .25 ACP from or a barrel in good enough shape to make an insert for a larger caliber rifle would be very likely.

Again other than some gunsmithing school student working up a custom barrel/gun I just do not see this going any where, how ever cool an AR-7 in .25ACP might be.

While factory loadings of .25 ACP are indeed tailored to 2-3 inch barrels, no reason a hand loader might not be able to work up some loads using slower powders in a longer barrel. Not sure even with handloading a .25ACP Criket would have any advantages over a .22Magnum one, other than the ability to reload the brass.

on the FMJ point: did not the USAF flirt with a FMJ .22LR for a bit?

-kBob

Fmj .22lr

The military had the T-42 in WWII, and Remington made the M-24, both in FMJ. No FMJ .22LR made in recent history.

As I recall, tunnel rats at Cu Chi used .22LR with FMJ bullets.

Tunnel Rats & .22LR ?

The Tunnel Rats were our guys, US G.I.'s, rooting out the VC that were in the tunnels (which the VC or AKA "Charlie") called home.

They weren't using .22's. They had .45ACP 1911's, one in each hand if possible. Our boys weren't there to mess around. They meant business.

Nom de Forum said:

You vastly over estimate my intelligence by asking.

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Not at all ! It's happened to me many times.

I have this little Raven (bottom center) for over 30 years. It is a snappy and reliable shooter. It has never jammed. Never.
It is good for close up shots only. It isn't my primary defense by any means, but I feel better with it than without anything. Easy to grab on the way out the door as a set of car keys are.
I sure wouldn't want to get hit with a .25 acp.
I have thought of getting rid of it a number of times but I wouldn't get much money for it. I suppose when I shoot up what ammo I have left, I will get rid of it simply because I won't be spending money on the ammo.

They had .45ACP 1911's, one in each hand if possible

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But it wasn't possible.

Because they had to have a feeble GI Issue angle-head flashlight in one hand to look for trip-wires, Punji-Stakes fouled with human excrement, and poisonous snake booby-traps.

.38 Special revolvers or .22 High-Standards were often used when they could get them, because they were sufficient for snakes often used to bobby-trap tunnels.
Or VC peeking around a corner.

And the .38 or .22 muzzle-blast was less likely to cause a tunnel cave-in and bury you alive then a .45 auto.
Or make your eardrums split & bleed.

BTW: If Vern Humphery says they used .22's in Cu Chi Vietnam?
That's what they used.
He was BTDT!

Were you?

rc

.22 ? .45 ? in Nam ?

No, I tried, but I was denied a chance to serve.

If Vern says so, I accept it. I thought he was asking a question.

Info on the web (and movies) can be misleading. I was just expressing an opinion, from what info I had. I'm just an old gas bag that has enjoyed studying and shooting guns for a long time.

I was not even considered for service then (which I checked out). I was told I was too old, and had two dependents (wife and child) that would have cost DOD too much money. They wouldn't even talk to me after my family situation was known.

Sorry, no disrespect intended. My thanks to all Vets who served our country.

There were a number of pistols in .25acp over the decades with longer than 2.5” barrels. Even the venerable Walther PP was made in .25acp for a couple of years.
But we’ll ignore the movie version of ‘From Russia With Love’ with its .25 caliber AR7.
I have a number of .25s. They are fun to collect and shoot. I like mine ‘on a stick’ when possible.

Well if you can reload for them cheaper than .22 ammo, then it has earned its stay.
For me who don't reload, they don't make sense. Current .32 pistols are so tiny. I can't see why anyone would choose a .25 for SD, while very compact .32 pistols are out there.
I will only take my chances with a .25 for SD if there could be one made that takes 20-shot at the very least,magazines, and with 3.5'' barrels or so. Even with a 20-shot magazine they still could be built in a compact size.
I currently EDC a PT709. I'm thinking of getting something smaller for some days. But a .25 it won't be.

I picked up a Baby Browning a few years ago, not because of any specific interest in the caliber or as to its use as a defensive weapon. Basically I was intrigued more than anything else that J.M. Browning could design such a tiny yet totally functional gun like that in .25ACP.

Holy Cow! Is that a Beretta "on a stick"?



That looks like fun...

VooDoo

Holy Cow! Is that a Beretta "on a stick"?

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Yes Vodoun da Vinci, it is. My 1956 Beretta 950b with a 15-round mag purchased from Numrich/GunParts.

The other 2 are a Raven and a Sundance A25, both with 15-round mags designed for the Raven.
I filed a mag-catch notch in one magazine, so that it fits the Sundance, Stirling, and probably some others.

And bannockburn, your 'baby Browning' looks exactly like my 'Bauer Automatic'...which was a stainless steel clone of the Browning Baby.

.

pockets

My Baby Browning is the lightweight model which has a nickel plated slide and an aluminum alloy frame. The "pearl" grips were made by Ajax Grips and the gun came with its original box (before they started shipping them in the vinyl pouches), and manual.

For those who like the HP22a, they also make it in .25ACP. I will buy one some day, just because. The .25ACP is a fun gun at the range but I also reload for it. It's more fun than a .22LR. For SD? Well, I'd certainly carry one if my other choice was a stick. It's still a gun that can kill or seriously injure. Llama also made a 'Baby Browning' type that is pretty cool.

larryh1108

Nice Llama Especial Model XVIII. Not one you come across very often. I have always had a certain fondness for the Astra Cub and Beretta Jetfire as well.

I am also seeking the same model (Executive) in the .22 Short.
Same gun, different caliber.
I almost had one (about 65%) recently but the bid got ridiculous.
I wouldn't pay well over $300 for one in that condition.

I wonder how well a Jetfire size gun would sell if it held 16+1....

I did a test that I posted here a while back comparing the .22LR and .25ACP from similar length barrels. Using Winchester 50 grain FMJ and CCI 40 grain MiniMag I fired through a 2x4 into water jugs. The .25ACP easily won, penetrating two jugs compared to just one with the .22 and keep in mind this was after penetrating a 2x4.

I think the .25 would have potential if it didnt come chambered in so many old guns. I know what NAA tried but I wasnt impressed.

I think a new .25 caliber straight walled cartridge with a 50 grain JHP at 1000 FPS would be a nice pocket gun. It would be around .32-380 ballistics if done right and would hold more rounds and be lighter and smaller.

Still, a 50 grain FMJ at 800 FPS will still get the job done. I am another fan of the old Raven .25 and NEVER had a jam. They are great pistols for the price.

my reading suggests that .25 and .32 acp owe as much to 1920-40 European gun laws than to anything else-ie they were considered ''defensive'' pistols-so were OK-9mm./.45 etc were considered ''offensive'' -and could not be owned by the common man...

Glock19Fan said:

I think the .25 would have potential if it didnt come chambered in so many old guns. I know what NAA tried but I wasnt impressed.

I think a new .25 caliber straight walled cartridge with a 50 grain JHP at 1000 FPS would be a nice pocket gun. It would be around .32-380 ballistics if done right and would hold more rounds and be lighter and smaller.

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I have been hand loading for .32 and now .380...I'd like to try .25 as well and I'm researching pistols. My point is that I am able to load some pretty impressive (relatively) handloads for .32 and .380 and suspect it will be the same for .25.

In a locked breech gun like the Glock 42, I am able to safely load hand loads that, quite frankly, frighten PPK pistol shooters. The Glock handles hot (not unsafe - just potent) hand loads with no signs of pressure or impending doom, mild recoil, and tremendous accuracy in loads that would have a blow back operated pistol and it's owner setting the gun down, shaking his head, and walking away. I can get 200 fpe out of a .32 acp in a blow back pistol like the Colt 1903...that's a 75 gr. pill running almost 1100 fps. I know it's still a mouse gun *but* I have little doubt about it's ability to function as an SD round.

Out of a locked breech gun? Boy would I love a locked breech .32 pocket gun...a modern gun with a long enough barrel and a locked breech to examine the potential that exists with these small calibers. I think (I strongly feel) that .25, .32, and .380 in a modern locked breech gun, might yield results in small pocket sized guns that would impress. The potential is there in these cartridges and calibers but we'll never see guns chambered to take advantage of that due to prevailing knowledge that they can never be effective as SD guns.

I think we have closed the door on something with the calibers before we have fully exploited the potential - I think a 3.5" barreled, locked breech, polymer pistols with a low bore axis in *hot* .25 could safely be shoving 50 gr. flat nosed bullets at 1200+ fps in a truly pocket sized pistol.

The performance I'm getting out of .32 and now .380 suggests we have not really exploited these calibers potential. IMO.

VooDoo

Not sure ballistically what it is capable of, but I can say that it can play a part in one interesting history! I like my little .25, and doing some research on it has been quite interesting on those long, cold winter nights in FL when I can't sleep.

History of CZ