.22LR vs .25ACP

[heeler]

The angle of the picture only makes the board look like a 1x6.
If you look at the far right of the picture you will clearly see the thickness and it is a 2x4.
Also look at the board sitting on the oil jug and at that point it is quite clear it is not a 1x6.
Finally I can clearly see the saw cuts on the board in question.
It's a 2x4 people.

 

[jimbo555]

If recoil is the problem than I would choose the 22lr because you have better platforms available in that caliber. the ruger lcr22 would be superior to a beretta 25 in my opinion,if hitting the target is your goal.Also cost of ammo makes the 22lr more likely to get the practice needed to be proficient.

 

[RJTravel]

Try that test in a real douglas fir 2X4. Not gonna penetrate. Works well in the 1X6 shown in the pics, but I think surprise is in order when a real 2X4 is used.

 

[CTPhil]

For what it's worth I just shot a doug fir 2x4 with a .25 FMJ and it didn't go through.

 

[P-Dog]

Neat test! Thx! My 10/22 is real picky about ammo ... Federal is now only for the revolver, I get constant misfeeds in the 10/22 with those. CCI and MiniMag have been good also.

 

[Glock19Fan]

nevermind

 

[heeler]

Dont sweat it Glock19FAN.
I can see it was a pine 2x4 board.

 

[Gordon]

Velocities vary greatly in .25acp; Baby Brownings or Bernadelli VB get around 700+ with PMC ball and a loose barrel 1908 Colt usually won't get much better. In a new Beretta 950 or 21 the velocity is 100 to 150 fps greater in my testing. Colt Jr.s and are in the middle as our good shape Walthers and such. Yup a tight barrel .25acp can get over 900 fps with Geco ball and they go right thru a pressure treated fir 2x4 or full 2" thick heart redwood.

 

[Glock19Fan]

Heeler- I just think some people post without reading a single post.

Gordon- I agree, old pitted barrels of any caliber will not hold the accepted velocities that many would expect. However both of the weapons I used in the test are fairly recent models with excellent bores. In fact I suspect the .22 to have a tighter bore than normal but have no way of measuring it.

But when the weather starts looking better I will run both calibers through the chrony. Til then I think I will test the 60 grain SSS and maybe the Stinger through the same.

 

[Isaac-1]

I have to wonder if this holds true for other test situaitons, maybe the .22 deforms more going through the wood than the .25 and therefore slows faster in the water, etc.

 

[Glock19Fan]

It is possible, but judging by the hole in the wood from the .25ACP, it appears much more energy is lost compared to the .22LR. Also keep in mind that while the .22LR does deform, it is barely larger than its original size, and no larger than the .25 bullet.

I will run the ammo through the chrony sometime in the next week, but looking at these figures, the two are almost the exact same energy wise.

.25ACP- 50 grains @ 750 FPS (62 FPE)
.22LR- 40 grains @ 850 FPS (64 FPE)

 

[Fanfare Ends]

Did you do this testing inside your house?
Are you [still] married? ( : >)

 

[Glock19Fan]

I took it to the range to do the test, but becuase of freezing rain and ~34 degree temps I decided to take it indoors for the report.

 

[Fanfare Ends]

( : >)

 

[Pete D.]

Velocity

25acp; Baby Brownings or Bernadelli VB get

700+fps.
OK. My little VP chrono'd at 760 fps using S&B ammo. That info about tight and loose barrels is certainly good to know in any case.

Thanks.
Pete

 

[AFDavis11]

Honestly, I'm asking . . . What hypothesis would someone gleen from this?

Is this representing a rib cage/breast plate bone or something?

So, .25 ACP out penetrates .22 through a 2x4? Ok. I take it this was something that someone, somewhere, didn't already know?

Is the idea here to slow the bullet down through wood so that penetration is measurable?

What is it about this test that suggests to you that the wise choice is a .25 ACP? I was really surprised by the conclusion that .25 ACP is/was more reliable. I assume that is some prior assumption?

Have you considered that both rounds are over-penetrating?

 

[The_Armed_Therapist]

That text that says 1400+ FPS on the side of a box of .22lr is from a RIFLE length barrel. Out of similar guns, the .25acp and .22lr are nearly equal in terms of ballistics.

OK, so I know that .22LR has more velocity from a rifle barrel, obviously. Is there a simple way to approximate how much velocity something like the mini mags have through much shorter barrels? I usually use momentum as an approximation of expected penetration, which would give the .22LR about a 25% advantage over the .25ACP. Running some numbers tells me that, assuming momentum is somewhat reliable in measuring penetration, the .22LR would have to be only achieving a velocity of 950 to be equal the .25ACP in momentum; and, under 950 to penetrate less.

Is 900 f/s down from 1235 normal for .22LR ammunition in short barrels vs. rifle barrels?

 

[Pete D.]

Hmmm

I have meant to chrono a few brands of hyper velocity .22s from my S&W 317. Haven't done it.
I do know that Barnes' CotW has this note about the hyper velocity .22s:

"....their increased performance is most pronounced when they are fired from a rifle rather than a handgun. In some instances, particularly in short barreled pistols or revolvers......these loads can generate much less energy than standard .22 Long Rifle high velocity loads. They actually exit the muzzle slower. (Barnes, CotW, 11th Ed., p.478)

What is it about this test that suggests to you that the wise choice is a .25 ACP? I was really surprised by the conclusion that .25 ACP is/was more reliable. I assume that is some prior assumption?

I wasn't surprised at all. I have owned both types of pocket pistols. The 22 was a jam-o-matic; the .25 has never jammed. Never.

Pete

 

[AFDavis11]

Pete,

That's why it is a prior assumption. Nothing about the test demonstrates or test reliability. Ive owned only one .25 ACP; it couldn't cycle two rounds in a row.

 

[il_10]

Cycling reliability is secondary to the question of the rounds' individual performance. .25ACP is a centerfire round. .22lr is a rimfire. Centerfire wins. That's the point of .25; that's why it was invented. He didn't suggest his test showed reliability, he commented on its inherent reliability, which is pretty generally accepted. There's a reason we don't have rimfire military arms.

 

[Glock19Fan]

Honestly, I'm asking . . . What hypothesis would someone gleen from this?

Is this representing a rib cage/breast plate bone or something?

So, .25 ACP out penetrates .22 through a 2x4? Ok. I take it this was something that someone, somewhere, didn't already know?

Is the idea here to slow the bullet down through wood so that penetration is measurable?

What is it about this test that suggests to you that the wise choice is a .25 ACP? I was really surprised by the conclusion that .25 ACP is/was more reliable. I assume that is some prior assumption?

Have you considered that both rounds are over-penetrating?

If you look at almost .22LR vs .25ACP discussion, you will see the massive amount of people stating the .25ACP is a worthless caliber and that the .22LR is better in every way.

The test was meant to show how each bullet will react to hard and soft targets, and how the penetration would compare.

The .25ACP is obviously the wise choice based on reliability and penetration. Neither rounds over penetrated becuase with these calibers, the best thing that it can do is penetrate deep since expanding bullets are not desireable in these calibers.

While I will continue to plink with the .22LR, if I decided to throw either one in my pocket, the choice would be the .25ACP.

 

[Chris-bob]

Loved the test. Thanks for the info. Already thought it, but it's nice to see it shown.

 

[AFDavis11]

Glock19,

I see. Yes, that would be an inaccurate assumption. .25 ACP has been outperforming .22 for defense for a while. I'm not really certain that we've proven that expanding rounds are less effective in the smaller calibers yet, but I've noted it seems to be a common "assumption" floating around the forum.

I was of the impression that most people who used .25 ACP did so out of "Saturday Night Special" pocket guns and had realized their inherent unreliability. Although I've never heard of a .25 ACP that was genuinely reliable it's nice to know that they are out there.

I have always used revolvers for .22 work, so you can probably imagine that I've never experienced a failure to feed with a .22 cal.

Do you carry either of these rounds in a BUG?

 

[il_10]

The Colt, Browning, and Beretta models in .25 have, in my experience, been pretty dadgum reliable. The only issues I've had with any of them that I've fired has been rimlock in the magazine, but that was my fault and happened early on in my using semi-rimmed cartridges.
Ortgies, Walther PP and PPKs, and the like are also pretty solid.

Comparing a Jennings .22 to a raven .25 isn't going to tell us much. But between a Beretta 21 in .25 and a 21 in .22, the OP is suggesting it's better to carry the .25.