Man Defends Self, Shooting From Car [GIF]

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psyopspec

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http://i.imgur.com/PqtvQTh.gifv

At the link: This past Thursday, a man seated in a car, defended himself from two assailants (I use this word not knowing if the two intended robber, murder, kidnapping, carjacking, etc) who pulled up fast on a motorcycle. No gore.

Observations/considerations:

MINDSET
• The would-be victim appeared as aware as one can be; the act of having a motorcycle pull up is not itself enough to draw, but he appears to note its presence nonetheless.
• Once it became clear that he was under threat, he looked for an opening and took it. His movements appear to embody "slow is smooth and smooth is fast" without tipping his hand to the assailants.

SKILLSET
• Can you draw while seated and belted in a car?
• If not, does this make a case for a car gun? (IMO, it doesn't given how easily and commonly stolen many are.)
• How well can you shoot while seated and belted in a car?
• Do you carry with a round chambered?

TOOLSET
• Nothing obvious to add here, IMO; the handgun he had worked, as would any serviceable model in this particular case.

If anyone comes across further details, please share; I have no other background.
 
He should have taken the guy out that had the gun first. That was the greatest threat.
 
joem1945 said:
He should have taken the guy out that had the gun first. That was the greatest threat.
Click to expand...


It looks to me the the bad guy with the gun turned and started running before the good guys gun was visible; as if the bad guy with gun had good awarness too.
 
To put it mildly... if you're seated in your car you might want to remember that your vehicle is a deadly weapon and make use of it if threatened. Most folks don't think in those terms I'm afraid....
 
Only thing I can see he could have done differently is:
1. If the car was still running, pull away rapidly as soon as the motorcycle crowded him.
2. If the car was not running, he probably did all he could as he may have been shot if he wasted time (and tied up his hands) by trying to crank the car.
 
• Can you draw while seated and belted in a car?
Click to expand...


Even with my usual cross-draw rig, it's difficult to get the gun out, what with seat belts and coats and all. I usually (if no passengers) park it on the seat next to me and usually cover it with a hat. The covering is not necessary here, but I do it anyhow.*

I call it my gun hat. I leave it in the car in case I forget to put one on when I leave the house.

If I have to brake hard and it slides off onto the floor, so be it. There's enough junk down there on the floor there to cushion it from damage.

That looks like a staged incident.

Terry, 230RN

* I had an occasion where I was in the left hand turn lane and a lady in an SUV in the straight-ahead lane next to me spotted it.

I saw her looking down at it. As I made my left turn, she pulled out of her lane and turned left with me and followed me. I saw her on her cell phone, so I presume she called in with a MWAG report and my license plate number. She followed me for quite a while, and finally turned off. They probably told her, "Oh, that's Terry. He's OK, he's got a permit."

All supposition with moderately-heavy evidence, but after that I renamed it from "car hat" to "gun hat" and used it to avoid nonsense like that.
 
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I mounted a cheapo Kydex 1911 pancake holster to the bottom of my truck dash, right under the steering column. Holds any of my 1911's, my BHP, or even smaller semi's quite well. Very quick and handy, out of sight but not hidden, and perfectly legal in CO.
 
Obviously the criminal with the handgun was not prepared to use it or our hero would likely be dead. I would have been gone the minute the motorcycle pulled in next to me. It's not like there was another lane of traffic there to make it normal for the motorcycle to be there.

As for drawing while seated behind the wheel, the best way to carry is in an ankle rig on the inside of your weak side leg. I carried my BUG there for a lot of years working patrol and I practiced drawing and engaging a target from that position.
 
Obviously the criminal with the handgun was not prepared to use it or our hero would likely be dead. I would have been gone the minute the motorcycle pulled in next to me. It's not like there was another lane of traffic there to make it normal for the motorcycle to be there.
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If you'll look the road barrier wasn't fully up yet when the gun was stuck in his face, not to mention we don't know what was in front of him.

That is one of those cases where it flat happened to fast and if the criminal would have been been prepared to use that gun, that guy would have been dead, as would you if you had tried to drive off, the time just wasn't there.

Sometimes, many times, compliance is simply the best way to stay alive, with that said I can't argue with results.
 
To put it mildly... if you're seated in your car you might want to remember that your vehicle is a deadly weapon and make use of it if threatened. Most folks don't think in those terms I'm afraid....
Click to expand...

I am having trouble seeing how this would apply in the current situation as cars do not move laterally.
 
If you'll look the road barrier wasn't fully up yet when the gun was stuck in his face, not to mention we don't know what was in front of him.
Click to expand...

We do know that there is nothing behind him. You don't have to just go forward to escape. There is no legitimate reason the motorcycle would pull up where it did. That was the first clue that something bad was about to happen. I would have been moving backwards before the passenger dismounted.

That is one of those cases where it flat happened to fast and if the criminal would have been been prepared to use that gun, that guy would have been dead, as would you if you had tried to drive off, the time just wasn't there.
Click to expand...

There was plenty of time to rut the gear shift into reverse and step on the gas. There is no need to wait to see what might happen when the motorcycle pulls up where it did.

I am having trouble seeing how this would apply in the current situation as cars do not move laterally.
Click to expand...

Put the gear shift into REVERSE, cut the wheel right and step on the gas. The car would have moved backwards striking the motorcycle and riders with the left side of the car. Or you could have turned the wheel left and struck the motorcycle and riders with the left rear of the car.
 
as would you if you had tried to drive off, the time just wasn't there.
Click to expand...
I think he would have had time to drive off IF the car was still running.

If had seen / felt / heard the bike squeeze between him and whatever the device was, if he had floored it he may have had time to leave the scene.

Maybe not, but if the vehicle was running, leaving would have taken less time than his actual actions did, besides the fact that he already had a gun in his face.

Had he driven off, the gunman may have taken a shot, but it's difficult to hit a moving target, and if he didn't get me with the first shot, I'd have been ducking while driving for any additional shots.

The fellow got off the back of the bike pretty darn quickly, but if the car was running, depending on how fast the driver's reactions were, he may have had time to leave before the bike passenger got to his window.
 
Over many years on the street in various vehicles and at all times of the day or night I learned to have my motor running and the vehicle in gear if someone was near me in another car or on a motorcycle (or anything else with wheels). More about this in a moment.

If I was approached on foot I was out of my car immediately, turning off the engine, and keeping my keys in my pocket. I never wanted to get caught in a vehicle with an unknown person approaching -if there was going to be a problem I wanted to be mobile at all costs (even if it meant retreating since there are situations you should withdraw from your position and go to cover if necessary..). No I'm not a guy who sought out confrontations -but I was a young cop in south Florida who started the last week of 1973 and I wanted to survive my job.... Those first ten or twelve years were during the height of the 'party' down here and for my 22 years total there were three cops a year, every year killed on the job (Dade and Broward counties combined or Miami and Ft. Lauderdale combined for those un-familiar with the area). It didn't take many years before I quit going to cop's funerals, period. Most had a reputation as very nice, easy going individuals and it more than one incident it got them killed...

Back to that vehicle scene... if you're in a car with the engine running and someone pulls up next to you and shows the slightest intention of being trouble (showing a firearm removes all doubt as far as I'm concerned...) then it's off to the races. My first action would be in reverse with my steering wheel turned so that any potential opponent has serious problems in a heartbeat. After whatever contact was made I'd pull away to a defensible position, exit my car and do my best to make sure I went home that night.....

Thank heavens most days/nights at work on the street were mostly boring, routine, and the highlight might have been what occurred after your shift.... Occasionally the job involved the kind of stuff that leaves you shaking after it's over (even if the entire incident was over in less than a minute...). Nothing can prepare you for the reality - but training, mindset, and remembering you're pretty fragile will go a long way to surviving any kind of serious encounter.

The main reason I spoke up about using a vehicle as a weapon is that most don't think of it at all. My other reason is that I learned the hard way that your actual tactics might be a lot more important than any skill with weapons in keeping you in one piece. Something to think about (and I'll get down off of my soapbox now...).
 
dang near every match i can remember has a 'shooting out of a car' stage. even the sniper matches have very common stage where your long gun is stowed in the back seat or trunk and you have to start seated in the passenger seat, fire your pistol at a target out the door, then retrieve your rifle and shoot some longer distance targets.

moving in and around cars can be a PITA. takes some getting used to for most people
 
We do know that there is nothing behind him. You don't have to just go forward to escape. There is no legitimate reason the motorcycle would pull up where it did. That was the first clue that something bad was about to happen. I would have been moving backwards before the passenger dismounted.
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There was plenty of time to rut the gear shift into reverse and step on the gas. There is no need to wait to see what might happen when the motorcycle pulls up where it did.
Click to expand...

Either we would disagree on what "plenty of time" is, or you overestimate your speed. We're talking about 2 seconds, possibly less.

Either way, we'll just have to disagree.

I should also note, bullets penetrate windshields, so it might not have worked out like you imagine.


Is everyone in Brazil who is not a thug, an off-duty cop?
Click to expand...
I don't know much about Brazil but I bet everyone legally carrying a gun probably is.
 
Either we would disagree on what "plenty of time" is, or you overestimate your speed. We're talking about 2 seconds, possibly less.
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2.84 seconds from the time the motorcycle got to the rear of the car until the passenger pointed the gun in the drivers window. So almost 3 seconds.

The driver of the car obviously sees the motorcycle pull up in the side view mirror. He even smiles or smirks a little.

I can shift the gearshift lever on my Expedition into reverse and hit the gas in .51 seconds. Figure a half a second to see the motorcycle pull up and decide you don't want to be there, that gives you a around a second and a half to hit the motorcycle and the 2 riders with several thousand pounds of mass and accelerate away.

Interestingly enough it takes the driver 5.03 seconds to get the first round off. He doesn't exactly explode into action.

From the position of the drivers right leg it looks like his foot in flat on the floor boards not on the brake so he must have put the car in park while waiting for the gate to be raised.

If you pause the video at 15:58.03 you will see that the gate is raised far enough for the car to move forward without hitting it before the motorcycle stops. In fact the front wheel of the motorcycle is even with the left rear wheel of the car at that point.

If the robber had been willing to shoot him for the car or whatever they were after he would have been dead.

I'm going to stand by my assertion that he had a option to drive out of the situation, either forward or reverse. Perhaps it wasn't unusual for a motorcycle to pull up so close to him there, but I would have been moving the vehicle at 15:58.03.

I've trained on shooting from behind the wheel. It would be something I would only do if there was no chance to drive away.

I let my guard down one night and I received a terrible scare. I had pulled a car over for speeding. He was doing 41 in a 30. It was a residential area but it was around 2340 and there was no one on the street and not much traffic. I introduced myself to the driver, told him how fast he was going, collected his license and proof of insurance and told him to wait there. I walked back to my squad and started writing a written warning.

I didn't pay enough attention because a minute later he startled me by standing at my window and saying "You're not writing me a(insert term for intercourse) ticket are you?" I tore his warning ticket up and said; "I wasn't going to but since you insist, no get back to your car where I told you to wait." and I wrote him a ticket.

The realization hit me instantly that if he had been so inclined he could have easily killed me and I would never have known what happened. Since that incident, my defensive space has been extended for a good 30 feet out form the vehicle anytime I was stopped and sitting in it.
 
It's hard to tell from that video if his gun was in a holster strapped to his side OR if it was in a holster between the seat and center console. The speed with which he was able to get the gun up with very little movement other than his arm makes me think it was the latter.
And the bike's passenger DID start to run as he saw the gun come up, leaving his partner to get blasted trying to back up the bike.
 
It looks to me like it was between the seat and the console. The driver is lucky that the inertia wheel on the seatbelt didn't lock on him.
 
I am having trouble seeing how this would apply in the current situation as cars do not move laterally.
Click to expand...
Put the gear shift into REVERSE, cut the wheel right and step on the gas. The car would have moved backwards striking the motorcycle and riders with the left side of the car. Or you could have turned the wheel left and struck the motorcycle and riders with the left rear of the car.
Click to expand...

By the time you got the car into reverse and cranked the wheel around, the pedestrian rider would have shot you multiple times and even if you got the car to move, the pedestrian would have been totally missed by the vehicle. Simply put, the pedestrian was too far forward for the tactic to work and the pedestrian was the immediate threat.
 
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