Why not do caps in reverse?

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joehughes

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Well, I now have the most beautiful handgun I've ever seen: a new .44, 1858 Remington New Army short barrel revolver. Awesome.

However, never done the black powder thingy before, so I've been doin' a lot of research for the past few days on how it all works, and my question is about percussion caps.

People say use over-sized caps; they go on easy. NO WAY: They fall off. Use caps you have to force on; they don't fall off. Force them on with a wooden dowel. WOAH!! What are you tryin' to do, blow yourself up? Don't try to force caps onto the nipples! Don't worry about it; just watch what you're doin'.

On and on the conflicting advice goes. My goodness! What's a Hobbit like me to do?

Well, I have something besides a new weapon: I have two college educations and an industrial engineer brain, so I didn't just fall off the back of the turnip truck. I have always had a knack for improving upon what's already there.

So, I'm sittin' here with the weapon in my hand, and I'm thinkin': Why not put the percussion caps on the nipples before you load the weapon? That way, you can use whatever method you choose to safely seat them.

Bare with me.

As I look at the weapon, it seems to me that as long as the cylinder is in the weapon, and as long as you have it in an upright position where the nipples are not resting against anything---the cylinder is in the weapon; there's no way the nipples can hit anything while loading, and as long as you have a brain and pay attention to what you're doin', it seems to me that this is a working solution to safely seating the caps.

I know this sounds inherently dangerous, but is it as dangerous as trying to force caps to seat with the cylinder loaded with powder and ball?

Have I lost my mind, or what?
Input most welcome.
 
On my Pietta, I just use number 11s and pinch 'em with my fingers. Number 10s must be forced and, well, I don't like doing that for the reasons you express. These are CCI caps. Different brand caps are of different size for a given size cap. IOW, a RWS number 11 ain't the same as a CCI. Anyway, maybe a mod will move this to the black powder forum so that more knowledgeable folks can answer your questions.

I've still got some number 10s, CCI, I bought and I've been forcing 'em on, but really, I'd rather pinch a number 11 such that it won't just fall off. They fit well when pinched.
 
i am listening but ain't no way I am gonna mess with loaded AND capped cylinders. I use 10s on my Uberti and pietta guns and force them on with a piece of hardwood that is relieved a bit on one end and a moderate palm flair on the other. I don't want to directly touch or fool with caps as little as possible. It must go back to working my way thru 2nd year of college as a blasters apprentice.
 
Always used a bit bigger and squeezed them between forefinger and thumbnail. Go on, stay on and are easy to remove.

One thing, the quality of the nipple is more important than some think. Pay extra, buy better, be happier.
 
I use Remington 11s as well. Can't find anything else around here. I have to pinch them on my Uberti and Pietta revolvers.
 
With my 1858, the cylinder comes out so easy, I load the cylinder on a stand with the lever. I pinch No 11 and push on with my finger, then put the cylinder back in the frame. There's a notch in my cylinder between each cylinder charge so I don't put the hammer down on a primer.
I found No 11 magnum primers to work a lot better than the plain No 11 ones too.
 
I don't want to jam a ball in a capped cylinder. I consider it a loaded firearm once the cap is in place.

I don't see how you can maintain muzzle discipline during the rest of the loading process.
 
Joe...if your uncertain of the sensitivity of percussion caps...when loading...try this.....with a "UNLOADED" cylinder......using the correct size caps for your gun....try and get one to go off....when pressing HARD.....can not be done with finger pressure.....and you will not get a cap to pop....using pressure with a wood dowel....will not go off......it takes an IMPACT....to get a percussion cap to fire!!!
 
As much fun as pinching caps or forcing them into place may be, I find it easier to get the proper size cap. Once I get my revolvers set up the way I like them, usually with some work done to the cones to make the caps fit properly, I buy a lifetime, or two, of caps. So far, I have yet to wear out a cone and need to replace it but that might be possible.

Kevin
 
Elmer Keith in SixGuns talks about an cap detonating while he was forcing it in place......Said it raised one hulluva blister..........didn't discuss the discharge aspect tho.

Like the Russian said: "Is gun, Is dangerous"!
 
You can't (shouldn't) cap the nipples first for two reasons 1) the air forced out of the cylinder when you ram the ball will blow the caps off and 2) the gun should be kept pointing in a safe direction while capping in case seomthing does set the cap off. It is not easy to control the direction of the barrel while ramming a charge. Folks have been doing the capping last for around 170 years; there might be a reason.

Jim
 
^^ Me, too. What is it you want us to "bare"? You're not one of those who thinks the second amendment is about sleeveless shirts, are you? :D


But, seriously, I wondered that once, too. I never tried it, and didn't give it much thought later, but a good point is brought up above in the handling of the muzzle with loaded, capped cylinders.

By the way, there is a black-powder subforum further down on the main page here at THR. You'll definitely find more C&B revolver enthusiasts there as well..
 
What you are proposing is just plain unsafe.
Caps are put on last for a reason.

Get the right size caps and do it the right way.
 
Yep, with the caps on THEN loading you will have your hands and likely portions of your head and torso sitting in front of a "loaded" gun.

When I'm capping I even practice muzzle control with the hand holding the gun in place gripping such that my fingers are all behind the front face of the cylinder.

I seat my caps with a pusher stick I made up from a scrap of oak. I've also used cheap building wood (various species) but those were too soft and deformed on the end from the pressure.

To ensure to myself that I was not flirting with disaster I literally crushed a half dozen caps in my bench vise and with some vice grip pliers to see if I could make one pop. They all crushed under many hundreds of pounds of pressure without popping. So pressure alone does not set them off. They need a sharp impact and to be pinched sharply between the anvil edge of the nipple and the hammer to go off.

And a hearty DITTO! to those suggesting replacement nipples. I recently put a couple of sets of Slix Shot nipples on my Uberti 1858's. No more sore finger tips from pinching caps. CCI #10's slip on easily then taper pinch tightly with a light press of the push stick. I should have done this a few years ago. I'm now going to get a set of Treso nipples (said to work just as I described but with CCI #11's) for my pair of open top 1860's so I've got one set for the one size and the other for the other size. Then it doesn't matter what size of caps I end up with I'm good to go.
 
Well, I'm sure the OP could do it, but I suspect that natural selection will rear it's head if he makes it a regular practice.:evil:
 
A properly made and fitting cap should not need to be either pinched or forced on. It should go on easily with a slight push and stay on until fired. Then it should blow apart and be out of the way, and not have to be pried off.

Jim
 
Jim, in an Idyllic World that would be the case.

Instead we have CCI and Remington #11 caps which are not quite the same size. And we have CCI and Remington #10 caps which follow the same path by not being quite the same size.

Then we have Italian makers of percussion guns that can't quite make up their mind so they give us nipples on the guns that have too much taper and sort of fit in between the different caps so that some require a firm press fitting to flare them out and others require a little bit of a pinch to stay on.

Even the after market folks can't do much better given the nature of the makers of the caps not being able to agree on a common size and shape. So if you look at Track Of The Wolf's web site you'll find a chart of all the commonly available after market nipples they sell along with what brand and size number caps they work best with.

It's enough to drive a cap and baller to drink I tell ya. In fact that's a DARN fine IDEA! ! ! ! :D
 
Hello, I point the barrel in a safe direction and lower the hammer slowly on every cap, then press with my thumb. This way, if it goes off, the ball goes through the barrel, not on the side of the gun.

Gil
 
It's enough to drive a cap and baller to drink I tell ya. In fact that's a DARN fine IDEA! ! ! !
If you add "bare with me" to that I'm running outta the room!:what::D
 
Dicky, I can't believe that someone with a user name such as yours is posting "bare with me" jokes.... :D

No worries mate. I'm a firm believer that some things are better chained up and kept deeply ensconced in one's subconcous next to the wall with the bullwhips and out of sight of the latex clothing where they are neatly away from trouble.... :D
 
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