Will Aluminum Frames Last?

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I've shot my alloy-framed KP90 for 20 years, kept it properly lubricated, and have more than 3000 rounds through it (used it to fire the qualification course for my CHL). Nor problems or excessive wear signs at all. I was a little leery of alloy frames at first, but no trouble yet.
 
3,000 rounds about 6 months worth of ammo for some people, its pretty safe to say if thats all youve shot in 20 years that it doesnt see all that much action
 
Good grief

People who shoot that much expect to have guns rebuilt or replaced, just like putting new tires on your race car.

Alloy frames were, and still are used to reduce the weight of a 40 oz gun to a 30 oz gun for cops & solders, and CCW civilians who carry a gun on their hip 24/7.

That was the intent in the 1950's when alloy frames first were introduced.

And it still is.

Despite the OP's assertion, it was not done as a cheap manufacturing short-cut!!

rc
 
SIGs are good enough for the Navy SEALs. I have a feeling they'll be aqdequate for most civilian use

Great point but on the internet don't forget about the "internet super commandos". They make SEALS look like a pack of bumbling Cub Scouts, at least in their minds. :rolleyes:
 
rcmodel

Alloy frames were, and still are used to reduce the weight of a 40 oz gun to a 30 oz gun for cops & solders, and CCW civilians who carry a gun on their hip 24/7.

That was the intent in the 1950's when alloy frames first were introduced.

And it still is.

Despite the OP's assertion, it was not done as a cheap manufacturing short-cut!!

Thank you rc! My point exactly. It's not like their making these guns out of aluminum alloy just to cut corners to make a profit or to make a gun that will need to be replaced within a couple of years because it's already falling apart. It was and still is a viable option to make a gun lighter and more comfortable to carry.
 
aluminum is inferior to steel and anyone who claims otherwise quite simply doesnt understand basic physics or metallurgy

Aluminum has limitations in certain areas, just like steel, and can by no means be stated as completely inferior to steel. If properly designed, an aluminum frame is a perfectly suitable design choice because of the corrosion resistance and weight advantages noted by many others.

I am a metallurgist that works daily with both aluminum and steel alloys of varying flavors, so I'd like to think I have a good understanding of my field.
 
sigarms228 said:
Great point but on the internet don't forget about the "internet super commandos". They make SEALS look like a pack of bumbling Cub Scouts, at least in their minds.

Over the years I've known several guys who did Special Ops for the US Army. One of the older ones (my age) did 3.5 tours in Vietnam as part of a Special Forces A Team, mostly working with the Montagnards; another did Black Ops in Africa and elsewhere. I also knew (but wasn't close to) one SEAL who was the spouse of a lady I worked with. I've talked with another SEAL, as well.

The first three guys I talked with in depth said that in combat handguns were infrequently used, but were a form of insurance (if they ran out of sub-gun ammo, had a malfunction, etc.) The other SEAL I talked with said he trained with handguns and was proficient, but noted there have been times when he would have been better served by carrying an extra canteen rather than a handgun. That guy might've been pulling my chain, but I suspect he was just making a point: a bigger, more powerful weapon (like the older M16A1 [from the VN era], or the current M16A2 and M16A3, at a minimum) trumped a handgun almost every time.

We (forum participants) tend to focus on handguns because in the civilian world, things are different. Even LEOs often seek to access to M16s when they have a choice. My son, a NC State Trooper has been issued and carries one in his vehicle.

We carry for different reasons -- anticipating the statistically rare break-in or assault. We don't really want the rounds we fire to go through walls and bodies and more walls, etc. And most of us aren't proficient with full-automatic weapons (even if they shoot only 3-round bursts).

If the recent attacks in Paris suggest anything, it may be that we'll all be carrying more frequently and, perhaps, rethinking what we carry... And the bad guys will probably be better-armed than we are.
 
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If the recent attacks in Paris suggest anything, it may be that we'll all be carrying more frequently and, perhaps, rethinking what we carry... And the bad guys will probably be better-armed than we are.

No doubt. The bad guy almost certainly will have superior firepower. Our best hope is to have the element of surprise and hopefully strength in numbers.

I wonder if I could pull off concealing a SIG MPX if I bought a nice trench coat?
 
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The pilot(s) of this ancient plane, laugh at this thread.
Usaf.Boeing_B-52.jpg

I've seen a few cracked 1911 and Glock frames. Make sure you change your recoil spring out regularly. My only beef with AL frames is that the checkering gets dinged up too easy. They need to switch to a Guncrafter Frag type checkering with AL frames.
 
Chuck Taylor, the guy who put so many rounds through a Glock, once said that in his experience as a shooter and trainer who did and saw a lot of shooting with a lot of different guns, the Commander's aluminum frame lasted as many or MORE rounds than the Combat Commander's steel frame.

I wish I had kept books on MixMaster A, the aluminum framed Springfield that does about half my IDPA shooting. I have used it regularly for some years now and it hasn't broken yet. If it does, I will put the upper on a new frame and carry on.
 
I have seen more than one alum. framed Star pd with cracked frames. I know more than one agent that carried this gun. On the short - steel is stronger and will last longer. Alum. is lighter and is probably good enough especially if you carry and weight is important.
 
Thanks for the "BUFF" picture. That made my day, even if it is one of those new fangled H-models built in the early 1960's.

The "Ship of Theseus". I hadn't heard that one before, and there is some truth to that with the B-52. However, I'm pretty sure there is still an awful lot of original equipment on them. If it's not original, chances are the replacement part came off another one built at the same time.
 
Yes, aluminum frames will generally fail before a good quality steel frame. That said, a quality aluminum framed gun like the Beretta 92 or Taurus PT92 will hold up well to what most shooters will put it through. In the case of the Taurus, the gun will get replaced if it fails anyways.
 
You people are aware that there are many many different grades and types of aluminum alloys don't you.

Some are extremely tuff and strong. Aluminum may machine easily but not all aluminum is cheap in cost to manfacture and ensure good quality.

If there is one common fault among all aluminum is it is not very wear resistant which is why aluminum is easily worked and machined but if the device it is going to be used on is well designed with that fact taken into consideration it is not a problem and again it is not cheap at all to do.

Although I like heavy steel firearms if I had to carry it with lot of other heavy gear for long periods of time I would want somthing lighter, in fact I would want everthing I carry to be as light as possible. I can figure that much out.
 
IMO: This whole thread was off the rails at post #1.

Does anyone actually think M-16 and M-4 military rifles are made of forged aluminum because it is cheaper then steel??

rc
 
My brother went through two Sig P-220's with alloy frames and gave up. He loved the gun but the alloy frame failed on both.
 
grter said:
You people are aware that there are many many different grades and types of aluminum alloys don't you.

Some are extremely tuff and strong. Aluminum may machine easily but not all aluminum is cheap in cost to manfacture and ensure good quality.

If there is one common fault among all aluminum is it is not very wear resistant which is why aluminum is easily worked and machined but if the device it is going to be used on is well designed with that fact taken into consideration it is not a problem and again it is not cheap at all to do.

Although I like heavy steel firearms if I had to carry it with lot of other heavy gear for long periods of time I would want somthing lighter, in fact I would want everthing I carry to be as light as possible. I can figure that much out.

All true.

It would appear then that gunmakers use aluminum for other reasons than just making the guns more cheaply...

Does anyone know that they ARE cheaper when they're made with aluminum frames? (Kel-Tec uses aluminum frames assemblies inside their guns -- but I think that is to keep weight down. The metal assemblies in the frame could, arguably be made of steel pretty easily... the are not complex designs.)
 
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yes its cheaper.. biggest cost in machining is the cost of replacing the cutting bits which are worn down at an exponential rate when cutting steel vs aluminum

and no, it doesnt matter how well the aluminum components are designed as to how theyre going to wear... when theyre touching eachother and moving against eachother.. theyre going to wear, theres no design in the world short of making a pistol that used all magnetic bearings that would prevent steel wearing down the aluminum
 
Have you machined aluminum??

It's sticky nasty stuff.

But modern cutting / cooling fluids make the difference moot in tool wear.

rc
 
Most of the data I've seen shows a life expectancy of around 35,000 rounds for aluminum alloy framed guns. ... In comparison most steel framed guns are usually good for at least 100,000 rounds and there are multiple Glocks out there with over 300,000 rounds documented. Aluminum is the least durable, and offers very few advantages over steel. There is a reason plastic guns are replacing them. But for most of us it is a non-issue.
Good info. Thanks.

How about +P+ 9mm and .45 ammo. I have a stock S&W 5906 and 3906; also a 645 -- all steel guns. Some of my ammo has this stamp on it. Do I need stiffer recoil springs our can I shoot it in moderation? I also have a S&W 457 .45 with an aluminum frame. I assume that's out (it has dual recoil springs). And a Sig P220 .45, also with an aluminum frame. I wouldn't shoot hot stuff out of that because it's too expensive (and nice). But would they last for limited use?

SW5906_2.jpg

S&W 5906 9mm

SW645.jpg

S&W 645 .45ACP

SW457_2.jpg

S&W 457 .45ACP
 
As usual, rcmodel is talking sense.

Just remember, barrels are subjected to tremendous force/pressure. Slides see a lot, too. Frames take some force, but nothing like what the "upper" parts get. All it's having to do is accept the spring-buffered recoil force of the slide/barrel assembly.

If we were talking about revolvers, that would be different.
 
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