38 +P Load

Alliant lists the max at 6.0 gr Unique with the Gold Dot bullet
As does Speer of course


Hornady lists 5.8 as +P with the XTP

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reload...owderlist.aspx&type=1&powderid=3&cartridge=27

Is .2 gr a big deal?? Only the Shadow knows plus we do not know what seating depth.?

You already shot some so it's all after the fact.

What gun are you shooting them in??

rc

If you're not just loading a few for personal defense loads and it's punishing your wrist/hand and probably your pistol, why do it?

"...Is .2 gr a big deal??..." Not likely. Load data in manuals are averages anyway. 2/10ths of a grain is nothing.

Alliant 1995 has +P at 5.6 gr maximum. http://castpics.net/dpl/

Shoots good, load does feel a bit on the hotter side, but not unmanegeable. Cases drop fine, no cratered or backed out primers.

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Seems ok, for the components your using.

Loading at maximum and above.

There is a problem with running Unique at maximum and using a measure. The powder drop can have a variation of 2/10 gr or more. Unless your going to hand weight each powder charge, stay away from maximum. If you change any component, pressure will change also.

chrisf8657 said:

K & L Frame Smiths is what I'm shooting it in. It is SHTF ammo that he made, which I expressed interest in because I would like to start loading some SHTF rounds.
COAL appears to be ~1.420.

If you guys think it's fine then I'll start loading some myself.

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No, I think most here will advise you to stay within the load manual or powder data which is 6.0. So your loads are over that. Who knows how they were measured or weighed??. Maybe they are even over by more than .2 grains??

When I said Is ".2 gr a big deal?? Only the Shadow knows plus we do not know what seating depth.?"

That was meant as a sign to question the load, not that it did not matter.!!



So what is said online should be "best practice" some guys push the envelope which is up to them.

Some well know gun magazine writer wrote a article in a big gun magazine about reloading 357 mag loads reduced by 10% in 38 special cases.(for use in 357 mag revolvers)
I thought it was a really bad article to publish. I imagined some Bubbas slipping one of those loads into a light weight 38 special gun,

The decision is yours,

If you are shooting it in a revolver rated for .357 Magnum, it is a non-issue since the revolver is designed for far higher pressures (Alliant shows 9.6 gr Unique at 1343 fps from a 10" barrel as a max load). If you are shooting it in a revolver not rated for +P, then is it is also a non-issue because you shouldn't be shooting them at all. If you are shooting it is a revolver rated for +P, then you are probably OK but I personally wouldn't do it because I like my eyes and fingers and risk them enough as it is.

That said, I've loaded 6.0 gr of Unique under 125 gr plated flat point bullets and got about 975 fps out of a 4" .357 Mag revolver and 1325 fps out of a 20" lever carbine. I liked how it shot but that was my work up in my guns and YMMV so you should work up your own loads. Unique is not my favorite powder and now that I can buy HP-38 again my experimenting with Unique is over.

The old .38-44 loads demonstrated that you can load at or near .357 Magnum pressures in a .38 Special case, as did Elmer Keith and other pioneers.

I would consider it safe in a 357.
But that's a little hotter than I think I would go in a 38 though.

I've considered building some 38/44 loads since I have so much brass and all 357's but I didn't like the idea of my ammo being potentially unsafe.

But your load dosent sound as hot as I was considering going to be fair. Still I think I'd dial it back just a little even when individually weighing each charge. I would for SURE dial it back at least a .5 grain if I was using a volumetric measure.

When working up loads I keep temperature in mind.

If it where me I wouldn't worry about shooting the 6.2gr Unique load in a steel K frame or other sturdy revolver made after 1950. The load is within published data though definitely a +P one.

I've loaded 125gr jacketed bullet on top of 6.0grs of Unique for probably 30 years or more, mostly Remington bulk bullets. Was looking for a load that would reach 1,000 fps from a 4" barrel to ensure expansion. 6.0gr of Unique was the max load listed in my Speer #9 though my 2nd edition Sierra listed 7.0grs as max with their bullet. I chose the lessor load to start and it worked so well I never found a reason to change it.

The only load I ever chrono'd was using Remington Golden Sabers on top of that 6.0gr of Unique in a Fiocci case lit by a WSP primer. That bullet left my 4" S&W 66 at an average of 1,053 fps which made me happy with the velocity for the load. Not to Buffalo Bore levels but as good as any factory +P.

The data below comes from the Sierra data in my 1993 published "One Book/One Caliber" load book for the .38 spl. Top load is a bit below my older Sierra 2nd Edition manual.

I think your decision to ease back to a 6.0 load is the smart thing. If you really need hotter, well, thats why we have .357 mag to work with!

Keeping your reloading fun AND safe...now thats the way to do it!

Mark

And .2 grains over max to me is basically nothing, almost withing margin of error.

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When the margin of error becomes part of the calculation, you no longer have a margin for any error.

IMHO shooting a friends reloads especially when loaded near the top is a good way to ruin a gun and friendship.

My best shooting buddy and I reload a lot. When we shoot together I shoot his reloads in his guns and he shoots my reloads in mine. That way if a "ah shucks" moment happens there is no blaming each others reloads.

38 Special +P

Why push the envelope? I have completely stopped using Unique. It doesn't meter very well at all and has been hard to find. I use Power Pistol with a moderate charge and 125 gr XTPs that shoots fine. I am shooting them in a S&W Model 19. 6.5 Grains of Power Pistol works fine for me.

Rule3 said:

You already shot some so it's all after the fact.

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Yep. The problem is not the load, the problem is you took someone else's reloaded ammo, known by you to be over max, and shot it from your gun without working up to it. Even us experienced reloaders, knowing what loads our guns can handle safely, do not start with an over max load. That is just shear foolishness. I can't begin to tell you how many revolvers I have that I never get close to max with before them giving me signs I'm already high enough.

chrisf8657 said:

And .2 grains over max to me is basically nothing, almost withing margin of error. To be honest, I wouldn't worry. Anything a bit more I'd start worrying, and anything .5 or more, I'd be worried.

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Again....foolishness. Just because a load is deemed safe with a test receiver or other firearm in the lab, does not mean adding another .2 gr is safe with any other firearm. This is why manuals tell us never start with a max load......much less with one above max.

Your guns, your fingers and eyes. Max loads are generally not the most accurate in handguns, so why the desire to run something so hot is beyond me. If you really are looking for a SHTF load, you need to find your most accurate load. Velocity don't mean squat if you don't hit the spot you're aiming at. If you need something more than that from a .38, you best get a bigger gun.

As has been said, shooting these in a .357 mag revolver, would not be a concern. My concern would be shooting them in a revolver designated as .38 or .38+p only.

I use 6.0 grains of Unique in my .357 loads. Just saying......