AR cycling issue

Now we're getting somewhere.

Next time you go out, load some mags with one round in them.

If the mags lock the BCG open, you don't have a short stroking problem. If you do have short stroking, that's another set of tests.

BSW

Maybe a gas port issue? Doesn't happen often, but they are sometimes too small.

Definitely sounds like a gas issue.

Is the gas block aligned?

Since you switched out the BCG, I doubt that it's the gas rings on the bolt.

Are you using a full-auto carrier? Sometimes called a "heavy" or "M 16" carrier.

Also, what buffer are you using?

If you are getting bolt bounce, then a heavier buffer or carrier should do the trick.

I don't know if it's the picture or my eyes but are you sure you have a new gas tube and complete bolt group installed by the pawn shop gun smith ?

Maybe my eyes but that brass and bolt look rough can you take it back and get
Your money back ? Maybe start over with a known good rifle

looks all pitted and chipped even the gas tube looks pitted.. wth?.. take a photo of the bolt carrier group out of the rifle

something doesn't look right with that bolt assembly ? you said its brand new nickel boron ?
is the extractor not holding on to the brass rim ?
have you tried to cycle it manually a few times and see what happens ?

kind of looks like the extractor is letting go of the case before the case has cleared
the rifle breach ?
I would take a hard look at the extractor and ejector / is either one stuck / missing parts like a spring or bad spring/ incorrect assembly ?

i dont know why people tell you to soak the bolt carrier group in oil, thats just as stupid as running them without oil.. there isnt many places inside an AR upper that the excess oil can go, its going to create resistance, slow the carrier down and short-stroke, not to mention collect more dirt and gum it up.. do not soak your BCG in oil, and do not run it dry but lubricate it properly

also, did you check out the gas system and the gas block to ensure there were no obstructions?

I suspect you're looking at two problems:
1) Failure to cycle AKA short stroking. You need to get some factory 556 NATO spec ammo. M193 or M855 doesn't really matter, what matters is that you eliminate the short stroking problem. If you still have short stroking with NATO spec ammo, you've really got short stroking. Short stroking with El Producto gun show reloads don't mean crap.
2) If that fired brass you've got failure to eject. That brass shouldn't be there, it should have been flung out of the rifle. Strip the BCG out and put a fired case under the extractor and use it to compress the ejector spring. When you let go the case should be flung off the bolt face. If the case doesn't fly free you've got a bad ejector. If the case slips out of the extractor, you've got a bad extractor.

BSW

justin22885 said:

...there isnt many places inside an AR upper that the excess oil can go, its going to create resistance, slow the carrier down and short-stroke, not to mention collect more dirt and gum it up...

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This is completely wrong

oldschool45 said:

Ok, still getting weird. Single round in the mag it locks back most of the time.
Running it wet with oil helped some. I wasn't real consistent with the ammo we were using so that is still a variable.
I was however getting these nasty jams more than I like
View attachment 737996
Its almost like its not unlocking and ejecting properly. Listening to the buffer tube sometimes there is no recoil pulse(no spring sound coming from the buffer tube). I'm going to see if I can find someone local to me to look at the gas block and port alignment.

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You have an extraction/ejection problem. The most likely culprit is the extractor spring. Test the rifle with a bolt known to give proper functioning.

It's possible the rifle also has a problem with short stroking, but it will be difficult to narrow the cause until the extraction/ejection issue is resolved

I agree with the xtractor/ejector as I said it my post above , but can you post a picture of that brass case looks off to me as well or maybe its the picture ?
Is it a reload ? Doesn't look like its has much of a shoulder ?

Not to derail this thread, but question about being a new-to-AR15s owner.

In Air Force Basic Training (a bit over a decade ago, so forgive my hazy memories), we learned basic cleaning and care of the M16A2. I really haven't dealt with the platform at all since then and haven't yet bought my own AR15. Evidently, there's a lot of knowledge to have to properly care for your rifle, not to mention troubleshooting. Do most ARs come with a manual supplying this knowledge (at least basic care, field stripping, cleaning, etc)? Is there a concise collection online somewhere? Or does a person have to pick it up in random chunks here and there?

I think I could fumble my way through a field strip if given enough time, but I don't remember almost anything about caring for the rifle from way back when.

Depending on where you get an AR from, it may or may not have an in depth manual. None of mine did, but mine were either assembled from scratch, or assembled from complete receiver assemblies that just needed to be pinned together.

I'd assume most factory rifles include some sort of manual. Heck, even my completed lower came with a manual, now that I think about it.

A good resource to have on hand is a military M-16 field manual. But the internet has a wealth of information.

IRT the OP, that bolt and carrier are far too wet. I've never ran any weapon that soaked in oil. It's simply unnecessary.

I'm on board with the extractor being one of the potential problems. But unless you're experiencing a double feed, where the empty case isn't ejecting, AND the bolt strips a fresh round from the magazine, it may still be short stroking. The only times I've experienced the above shown failure is when I used grease on the bolt carrier instead of oil. The viscosity of the grease was such that the bolt wouldn't travel full stroke. It would extract the case, but not eject it, or it would extract and eject, but not feed another round.

Pull the bolt, clean the bolt and upper receiver of all excess oil, leaving only a light coat. Then take it to the range and shoot.
While the bolt is out, check your gas key. Make sure the screws haven't backed out. Some cheaper BCGs don't properly stake the screws for the key and they can come loose. If you're bleeding off gas, it'll short stroke.

Also with the BCG out, check the alignment of the gas tube. If those look ok, and it's still short stroking, the next thing to check is the gas block.

If you still have problems, take it to a gun smith.

Remove your gas block and check the gas port size. You can at least eliminate that and it's easy enough. When you put it back you have to make sure everything is aligned and the pins are installed correctly.
Have you checked the weight of the buffer and checked the length of the spring? I'm just thinking outside the box here a little

USAF_VET, load an empty into the chamber and close the bolt on it. Then load a dummy round in the mag. Slowly draw back the BCG until the empty ejects. The carrier will only be half way back. Let the carrier go forward. It will not move the round out of the magazine.

The malfunction you describe cannot be caused by short stroking. It can only be caused by a failure of the extractor to hold the empty until it can be ejected or fails to eject.

Also, the malfunction you described is not a double feed. A double feed is when the magazine releases two rounds instead of just one and is a magazine problem

MistWolf said:

USAF_VET, load an empty into the chamber and close the bolt on it. Then load a dummy round in the mag. Slowly draw back the BCG until the empty ejects. The carrier will only be half way back. Let the carrier go forward. It will not move the round out of the magazine.

The malfunction you describe cannot be caused by short stroking. It can only be caused by a failure of the extractor to hold the empty until it can be ejected or fails to eject.

Also, the malfunction you described is not a double feed. A double feed is when the magazine releases two rounds instead of just one and is a magazine problem

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Tell you what, use Royal Purple high temp grease to lightly coat your upper receiver. Your bolt won't fully travel when fired. The extractor was fine, as was the ejector, but the bolt was slowed before it got to full travel because of the improper lubrication. It would fully extract the empty case, but it would only eject it every other round or so. Most often, the empty case would get stuck. Occasionally it would eject, but not strip the next round.

How is that not a short stroke? The bolt is not cycling completely, all the way back to extract, eject, and feed the next round, the exact same problem mentioned in the OP.
It's stopping and going forward again before it's supposed to. A short stroke.



When I experienced this, I did NOTHING but clean and properly lube the rifle, which eliminated the problem.

What I'm saying is that unless he is not ejecting and trying to feed another round, it is probably short stroking, not cycling all the way back. If it's not going all the way back, and it's extracting fine, it may not eject because the bolt is already traveling back toward battery before the extracted case is ejected.

If the case is fully extracted, (which by the picture, it is) but not ejecting, it may be trying to eject, but the bolt is slamming the neck of the empty case into the front of the ejection port.



Load an empty into the chamber and close the bolt on it. Then load a dummy round in the mag. Slowly draw back the BCG until just before the empty ejects. The carrier will be less than half way back. Let the carrier go forward. It will not eject, and will slam the empty into the barrel extension. Do it again, as you described and the case will eject but not feed the next round. I was experiencing both failures. The OP is just experiencing the first part. And yet you say that this failure to eject can't be caused by a short stroke of the bolt? My personal experience shows otherwise.

My mistake. I misunderstood what you posted. I thought you were talking about the malfunction where an empty case and a live round get stuck in the action at the same time

That really looks like an extractor or extractor spring failure to me. I know you're getting a million ideas all at once, but I had similar failures with an M-16A2 in basic training. Basically, I'd end up with a fired casing wedged between the bolt and the inside of the upper and a live round jammed into the chamber against the half ejected empty and mangled all to hell. I learned to clear it real fast by forcefully pulling the magazine out, then pulling the charging handle to the rear and allowing the offending rounds to fall out the mag well. A replacement extractor spring saved me just before BRM qualification day. I'd get known good ammo like Federal XM-193 or XM-855, then try the extractor and spring. They're cheap and I always keep an extra of each on hand. Better to have and not need...

Fwiw, I've also seen AK's and FAL's fail with bad parts, so don't let this get you down on the AR design. Anything can fail with bad or worn parts.

They don't even have to be bad or worn parts. My rifled only failed due to improper lubrication. The BCG in the photo is drenched in lube. There's no need for it to be run that wet. I wouldn't be surprised at all if that contributed to the failure experienced, considering I've done virtually the same thing and had the same problem.

Hopefully the OP can access the rifle and get it running right, then report back as to the cause.

USAF_Vet said:

They don't even have to be bad or worn parts. My rifled only failed due to improper lubrication. The BCG in the photo is drenched in lube. There's no need for it to be run that wet. I wouldn't be surprised at all if that contributed to the failure experienced, considering I've done virtually the same thing and had the same problem.

Hopefully the OP can access the rifle and get it running right, then report back as to the cause.

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youre trying to educate a bunch of people who believe what they heard on youtube more than simple physics.. you can overlubricate a rifle and then i get this line of misinformation about how the ar-15 is a "bearing" or some crap like that, not realizing you can put too much lube in a bearing too

i think they need to read up on a thing called hydrodynamic drag which occurs when bearings are over-lubricated which results in drag on the moving components that has to push its way through the piles and globs of dripping gun oil which can have as adverse of an effect as running dry

and this doesnt just effect the bolt moving rearward, its also getting into the extractor, its getting into the ejector, its getting into the gas rings, probably into the gas key

AR-15s, and really all firearms need to be PROPERLY lubricated, not ran dry and not soaking wet

Test the rifle with a bolt known to give proper functioning.

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This seems to be a particularly straight forward suggestion. And a great place to start. It's either the spring or the extractor itself OR the gas rings are hanging up. Newness of the BCG does not necessarily = goodness for use.

I wouldn't go tearing down to the gas tube yet. I didn't need to become "good" at AR's with my 5.56 or 6.8, but my 10mm AR has taught me upside the head.

I think the OP overlubed in an attempt to correct the problem. I had a brand new BCM upper that started giving me similar failures after a couple hundred rounds. Everything I read said "more lube" so I tried that. Like the OP, that helped a little but only a very little. BCM fixed my issue, which I suspect centered around the extractor. That little part has caused me headaches on FAL's, an SKS, a 10/22, and several members of the AR family. Even on new rifles or quality builds, I never assume new=in spec and good working order.