49willys
Member
Iv gone a bit over max out of a ruger redhawk 44 mag.for shooting bowling pins.shooting 300 gr.bullets.I dont know if it made a difference,but I won.
How many of you load near or at max
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I've never had a need to go over max. All but one of the cartridges I load for has performed the best and was the most accurate at or just a smudge over the middle. I have typically found that the groups widen up more as I get to the upper range. Rather or not they close back up as you get past max, I don't care to find out with my face next to the receiver. The first time you see somebody using a raw hide mallet to get their bolt open after shooting a super hot reload, you kind of loose interest in pushing things.
The only exception has been 296/h110. I use it for 357 magnum and it has typically done it's best at or near max throughout a variety of bullet weights. I've been pretty happy with the result and the light show that comes with it,but I'm honestly moving toward something more practical that will get the job done and take less off the end of my revolvers life.
The only exception has been 296/h110. I use it for 357 magnum and it has typically done it's best at or near max throughout a variety of bullet weights. I've been pretty happy with the result and the light show that comes with it,but I'm honestly moving toward something more practical that will get the job done and take less off the end of my revolvers life.
weeelllllll Kind of!
I guess I will have to answer YES. but a little explanation first!
I have been loading for more years than I care to admit and when I first started loading for the 38 Special in the very early 70's, A middle of the road load for a 158G SWC was about 4.7 G of Red Dot according to the 70s Hornady manual. Velocity averaged approx 1050 fps.
I continued to use this loading up until about 2 years ago, It was a great load and as well as being accurate, felt good to shoot. Accuracy was fantastic.
About 2 years ago I got a look at the latest Hornady load for the same 158G SWC and lo and behold it was down in the 3.2 3.5 range. I posed a question on THR asking if any one else had noticed how all of the modern loading manuals have backed off the loads and made them wimpy? Wow I got hit with so many replies saying my revolvers should have blown up by now!!!! Several even bet that I would find erosion and flame cutting of the top straps and that my revolvers were unsafe now. Well my response was BS I shoot them in my SW and DW both in .357 caliber. Needless to say there is no sign of stress on any of my 357s Nor did I ever see any signs of over pressure on any of the 1000s of cases. Some of which have seen at least 25 reloads.
I do work up loads carefully and after much testing, and checking velocities with my chrono, that original 4.7 G became my standard 38 load for well over 30 years. In closing I would say that it is up to each individual to work up safe loads that are suitable for a given firearm.
No I am not saying or encouraging any one to go over Max loads but EVERY LOAD SHOULD BE WORKED UP TO, AND TESTED.
When powder got scarce a couple years back I did back off to 4.3G Red Dot over that same 158 SWC, but that is as low as I am going . That is my current load and if the new manuals are to be believed I am still over max!
I guess I will have to answer YES. but a little explanation first!
I have been loading for more years than I care to admit and when I first started loading for the 38 Special in the very early 70's, A middle of the road load for a 158G SWC was about 4.7 G of Red Dot according to the 70s Hornady manual. Velocity averaged approx 1050 fps.
I continued to use this loading up until about 2 years ago, It was a great load and as well as being accurate, felt good to shoot. Accuracy was fantastic.
About 2 years ago I got a look at the latest Hornady load for the same 158G SWC and lo and behold it was down in the 3.2 3.5 range. I posed a question on THR asking if any one else had noticed how all of the modern loading manuals have backed off the loads and made them wimpy? Wow I got hit with so many replies saying my revolvers should have blown up by now!!!! Several even bet that I would find erosion and flame cutting of the top straps and that my revolvers were unsafe now. Well my response was BS I shoot them in my SW and DW both in .357 caliber. Needless to say there is no sign of stress on any of my 357s Nor did I ever see any signs of over pressure on any of the 1000s of cases. Some of which have seen at least 25 reloads.
I do work up loads carefully and after much testing, and checking velocities with my chrono, that original 4.7 G became my standard 38 load for well over 30 years. In closing I would say that it is up to each individual to work up safe loads that are suitable for a given firearm.
No I am not saying or encouraging any one to go over Max loads but EVERY LOAD SHOULD BE WORKED UP TO, AND TESTED.
When powder got scarce a couple years back I did back off to 4.3G Red Dot over that same 158 SWC, but that is as low as I am going . That is my current load and if the new manuals are to be believed I am still over max!
I'm at the point in my 'little' 10mm project that the effects of temperature (30-95deg where I live) are really starting to show - some being inverse of what's the norm.
Since the data's published I've made specific note that stop-point loads recorded at winter temps will very likely be decreased as go back up the ladders this summer.
Since the data's published I've made specific note that stop-point loads recorded at winter temps will very likely be decreased as go back up the ladders this summer.
jimbeaux82
Member
A little explanation/detail
1) I only load rifle ammo, not pistol
2) I chronograph all of my loads
3) when I buy a new rifle, I chrono new factory ammo in it to see what 'normal " factory ammo clocks in my rifle
4) I generally try to match factory velocity or close to it with my reloads so that if forced to use factory for any reason the zero should be close.
However, to do this, many times I am slightly over the charge weights listed in the reloading manuals but I stop when I achieve the listed velocity with the stated powder. The difference between my rifle and the manual is the internal dimensions of the barrel. Very likely that the pressure barrel used by the reloading companies to develop their loading data is cut to minimum specs while a factory produced barrel has a little greater dimensions while still being in tolerance. hence, I have to use a little more powder to get the same pressure and velocity.
Do not try this unless you do have a chrono and use it religiously.
1) I only load rifle ammo, not pistol
2) I chronograph all of my loads
3) when I buy a new rifle, I chrono new factory ammo in it to see what 'normal " factory ammo clocks in my rifle
4) I generally try to match factory velocity or close to it with my reloads so that if forced to use factory for any reason the zero should be close.
However, to do this, many times I am slightly over the charge weights listed in the reloading manuals but I stop when I achieve the listed velocity with the stated powder. The difference between my rifle and the manual is the internal dimensions of the barrel. Very likely that the pressure barrel used by the reloading companies to develop their loading data is cut to minimum specs while a factory produced barrel has a little greater dimensions while still being in tolerance. hence, I have to use a little more powder to get the same pressure and velocity.
Do not try this unless you do have a chrono and use it religiously.
LiveLife
Member
While most powders produce higher velocity as temperature increases, some powders like W231/HP-38 are more temperature sensitive than powders like Titegroup which is less sensitive. So if you developed max loads at colder temperatures, in the heat of summer, your loads will produce higher velocities. And there are reverse/inverse sensitive powders like WSF which will produce lower velocities as temperature increases - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=10117881#post10117881joneb said:
Standard/Temperature sensitive powders (produces higher velocities at higher temps):
- Clays
- Titegroup
- W231/HP-38
- Power Pistol
Reverse/inverse temperature sensitive powders (produces higher velocities at lower temps):
- Competition
- WST
- Solo 1000
- N320 (but some claim reverse temp sensitivity)
- SR7625
- Universal
- WSF
- Silhouette
CZ9shooter
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Power Pistol. 9mm. 124gr XTP. 1300fps. CZ75.
This load got pretty high in pressure because I originally made a bunch of rounds (hundreds) for my SR9 at a very long OAL. Sold that gun, bought the CZ. It's chamber is much shorter. I reduced the OAL on the loaded rounds and tried a few. They worked. But it put me quite a bit over max for that short OAL. I finished of the rest over that summer.
This load got pretty high in pressure because I originally made a bunch of rounds (hundreds) for my SR9 at a very long OAL. Sold that gun, bought the CZ. It's chamber is much shorter. I reduced the OAL on the loaded rounds and tried a few. They worked. But it put me quite a bit over max for that short OAL. I finished of the rest over that summer.
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newfalguy101
Member
Bout the only thing I load even close to max is my deer hunting rounds in the .44's.
In that instance, I am looking for the max power, even though it is slightly less accurate, I also keep my shots within 100ish yards and preferably closer.
I don't recall the recipe off hand, but, I am pushing a 240gr bullet at ( according to the book ) around 1300 fops.
In that instance, I am looking for the max power, even though it is slightly less accurate, I also keep my shots within 100ish yards and preferably closer.
I don't recall the recipe off hand, but, I am pushing a 240gr bullet at ( according to the book ) around 1300 fops.
ZWCoffindaffer
Member
I havent been loading as long as some others, but so far I've only had one load I had to push to the max powder weight listed anywhere. It was a .243. I slowly worked the load up to max at which point the charge was a compressed load and I finally got my desired accuracy. All the other rifles and handguns I've had have done what I needed them to, below max load data.
Perhaps a tad past.
TwoEyedJack
Member
I am very careful about going over max, and only do this under certain conditions. For example, I have a .270 that has a very long throat and magazine. My loaded rounds are about .2" longer than SAAMI. This gives me a lot more case capacity, and I do go over max loads with slow powders like IMR4350. My 130 gr. hunting loads chrono at 3150 fps and give excellent accuracy, usually in the .3-.6" range depending on the bullet. Brass life is excellent. I have taken deer at over 400 yards that were DRT.
I never exceed max loads with anything but a Ruger #1, or modern bolt action. IMHO, if you need more power from a handgun, go to a bigger cartridge. Especially with revolvers, there are cartridges out there that will satisfy any requirement for recoil, noise, and muzzle energy. Why abuse a .41 mag when a .454 Casull is available?
I never exceed max loads with anything but a Ruger #1, or modern bolt action. IMHO, if you need more power from a handgun, go to a bigger cartridge. Especially with revolvers, there are cartridges out there that will satisfy any requirement for recoil, noise, and muzzle energy. Why abuse a .41 mag when a .454 Casull is available?
FROGO207
Member
I rarely go to max loads or over. I am all about accuracy and find that most times that is near min or just above (lower than mid) for most of my rifle rounds. Handgun rounds are most often at mid or slightly above for accuracy. I will temper the results using several sources for data to establish my loading range for the workup and test at high/low temperatures to develop a "best" load. YMMV
spitballer
Member
FWIW I've never been able to approach max loads when using faster powders in long gun. I'm not too familiar with handguns but surely the faster powders used for these applications means that matching propellant speed to barrel length is even more critical? Others probably know more about this...
TimSr
Member
Considering "max" is highly dependant and sometimes varies greatly based on your data source I'm going to be skeptical of a 5% claim that isn't related to a specific load manual.
I started loading with Speer #9 and #10 manuals and I'm sure that a lof of my loads were above max in other sources.
I started loading with Speer #9 and #10 manuals and I'm sure that a lof of my loads were above max in other sources.
Sunray
Member
Yep. My .30 Carbine load is the max load now.
Max loads are not inherently dangerous any more than a compressed or any other load. Like exbrit49 says, data in manuals changes. One book will give one load as max, the next volume will show something else. Data in manuals are averages anyway. Max loads are nothing to be afraid of if your firearm is in decent condition.
Max loads are not inherently dangerous any more than a compressed or any other load. Like exbrit49 says, data in manuals changes. One book will give one load as max, the next volume will show something else. Data in manuals are averages anyway. Max loads are nothing to be afraid of if your firearm is in decent condition.
tightgroup tiger
Member
My 8mm Mauser I always load over max and have absolutely no pressure signs of any kind.
My 30-06 Moroku Browning Model 81 I have to load 2 gr over minimum and have flattened primers so I consider that max.
Both .243s (1946 Winchester 70 and 1990 Savage 110), I load over max load with IMR 4350 and 100 gr bullets to get the best accuracy. (according to my new manuals) No pressure signs at all.
My model 57 Smith .41 mag is a tack driver at max load, both my model 28s favor heavy loads and my .357 GP100 and Security Six do better at mid loads.
My .327FM does it's best with light loads with lead bullets.
My 9mm Shield and Ruger SR-9 like max loads.
Don't know what to say, a gun likes what it likes.
My 30-06 Moroku Browning Model 81 I have to load 2 gr over minimum and have flattened primers so I consider that max.
Both .243s (1946 Winchester 70 and 1990 Savage 110), I load over max load with IMR 4350 and 100 gr bullets to get the best accuracy. (according to my new manuals) No pressure signs at all.
My model 57 Smith .41 mag is a tack driver at max load, both my model 28s favor heavy loads and my .357 GP100 and Security Six do better at mid loads.
My .327FM does it's best with light loads with lead bullets.
My 9mm Shield and Ruger SR-9 like max loads.
Don't know what to say, a gun likes what it likes.
oldreloader
Member
Most of my accurate loads are well below max. Besides I've never seen a deer that could tell the difference between a 2900 FPS load and a 3200 FPS load.
I could care less about accuracy out of a revolver. I load 45 colt stuff for the blackhawks and Vaquero's at max heavy colt loads. .357's and 10mm's get the same treatment. If I can hit an orange off hand at 10 yards I'm feeling pretty good. If it hurts my wrist I'm feeling even better. If I get flattened primers or split cases ( especially 10mm. They like to split ) I make sure not to reuse them 
.
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Andrew Leigh
Member
Maybe I am just grumpy today but the logic of buying a calibre and pushing it to perform like another calibre defeats me.
Could someone who is pushing their loads please explain their reason for pushing the envelope rather than getting a speed appropriate calibre. I am curious.
Could someone who is pushing their loads please explain their reason for pushing the envelope rather than getting a speed appropriate calibre. I am curious.
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