T/C Encore

Pokajabba said:

I've had my sights set on a single shot break action rifle for a while, but with H&R/NEF and Rossi no longer making new rifles, it's difficult to find them for a good price anymore and nearly impossible to ever get a second barrel unless bought as part of a package deal. Thus, enter Thompson Center.

While the price is higher than I'd like to pay, I know that the quality of these guns is unmatched.

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The quality used to be unmatched but rumor has it that it's not as good since Smith and Wesson acquired the company. I wouldn't know because all of my Encore stuff is from when the company was privately owned.

Pokajabba said:

What I'd like to know is with a 15 inch barrel, what's the max range I can expect with .308? I'm looking for 500 yards max, but 400 is acceptable.

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Some have shot them at the 400 to 500 yard range but with any handgun velocity is not going to be equal to a rifle and thus the trajectory at extended ranges will be a lot steeper. I would say 200 yards is easily doable with 250 to 300 yards more challenging. Four hundred to 500 yards would be very challenging to a lot of rifle shooters.

Pokajabba said:

What kind of MOA can I expect?

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I have 3 different barrels capable of about 1.5 inches at 200 yards; the cartridges are 375 H&H Magnum, 444 Marlin and 460 Smith and Wesson Magnum. I would say with a good barrel, the 308 Winchester could do just as good and maybe even better.

Pokajabba said:

Also, how much would it be for a .223 barrel?

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If you're wondering about range and precision, about the same as a 308 Winchester.

Pokajabba said:

Final question: How is long range shooting of a pistol chambered in a rifle cartridge different from rifle shooting? Is it a challenge to adapt to?

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Yes, it's quite challenging.

For best results, I'd go with a barrel from Match Grade Machine, a Leupold handgun scope in the 2.5 to 8X range, the SSK Industries T'SOB scope mount with 4 rings and a pistol Encore frame on which a Bellm spring kit had been installed to make a lighter and better trigger.

Note, handgun frames are the same as rifle frames but you cannot legally use frame that was initially sold/assembled as a rifle to assemble a handgun. It is legal to assemble a rifle out of a frame initially assembled as a handgun and it would be legal to turn such a frame back in to a handgun.

Regarding the Bellm spring kit; you can do the trigger job with said kit all by yourself if you're handy with tools and reading directions; if not, there are gunsmiths who'll do the trigger job with the kit. Also don't buy into all the other hype on the Bellm web site about shims for headspace, Bergara barrels, etc.

You don't want to have a 15" barrel on a rifle - that'll cause you a great deal of trouble.

no you cant put a 15" barrel on a rifle but i had a 17" 308 win that i would
flip/flop from pistol to rifle worked out well

15" 308 would be pretty similar to 300 savage velocities if that gives you a frame of reference.

You can pick up the tc specific loading manuals (vol 1&2) to get an idea of most of the calibers offered and their expected velocities.

I've got a 15" Encore in 30.06 and find the challenge of shooting it accurately a very steep one. If you're talking about off a rest and sandbags then maybe it would do OK...but as a handgun in field positions there's NO WAY I could make a 2 minute 400 yard shot with it. The thing kicks pretty stoutly and I think this moves the bullet impact around depending on how it's being held. You likely are a better shot than me...but what you're asking is a LOT for any pistol in a non-benchrest situation IMHO.

I have 3 different barrels capable of about 1.5 inches at 200 yards; the cartridges are 375 H&H Magnum, 444 Marlin and 460 Smith and Wesson Magnum. I would say with a good barrel, the 308 Winchester could do just as good and maybe even better.

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Those are pistol barrels??

Pokajabba said:

Understood, but what if I zeroed the scope out for 400 yards? That would allieviate the trajectory, yes? I have little experience with scopes, so I don't know if this would work or not.

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Yes, that would solve the 400 yard trajectory problem but you would be quite high at 100 and 200 yards.

Pokajabba said:

That's good to hear, I'd be happy with 2 MOA.

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At 200 yards, 1.5 inches is about 0.7 MOA. You also have to understand that just because you get 0.7 MOA at 200 yards doesn't mean you'll get that at 400 yards. At extended ranges, little differences in velocity start making a big difference on paper.

Pete D. said:

Grumulkin said:

I have 3 different barrels capable of about 1.5 inches at 200 yards; the cartridges are 375 H&H Magnum, 444 Marlin and 460 Smith and Wesson Magnum. I would say with a good barrel, the 308 Winchester could do just as good and maybe even better.

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Those are pistol barrels??

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Yes, all pistol barrels. The 375 H&H Magnum barrel is 13 inches long with a brake, the 444 Marlin is a 15 incher with no brake and the 460 S&W Magnum barrel is 15 inches long with a brake.

You have to specify bullet weight.

I would think a likely velocity with a 15 inch barrel and shooting 168 grain bullets would be in the low two thousands. That is just my guess as I haven't seen any specific data regarding that.

Pokajabba said:

I never said I wanted a 15 inch barrel on a rifle, i said I wanted it for the pistol, hence why I made this thread in the HANDGUN section.

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You implied it when you said:

Pokajabba said:

I've had my sights set on a single shot break action rifle for a while...
What I'd like to know is with a 15 inch barrel...

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Hence the confusion.

More relevant to your question, how well can you shoot a rifle at 500 yards? Going to a pistol adds difficulty. Something to consider.

I don't have an encore, but I do have a contender. Adapting to long range pistol shooting is not really all that bad. You go about it kinda like you would a rifle, just not exactly the same. Shooting off of a bench or table is really nice as it gives a good solid base and you can use bags. 200 to 300 yards is very doable. The down side to a longer barrel though is that they are harder to shoot without bags or benches just due to the unsupported weight out front. If you want to hunt with it, my suggestion would be a 12" just to cut off a bit of nose heavy weight.

Encore is a great platform to SBR or pistol! Put whatever barrel length you want on it. Fun fun fun. Just depends on where you are located of course.

No reason a pistol version cannot be as accurate as the rifle. Shoot off bags and or bipod. Lots of people are quite successful with it. YOU will be the limiting factor here.

15 inch or 16 inch 308 will shoot out to any range you want to. Sure you get less velocity, but that is about it. 16 inch 308 with 175 class bullets can be chugging along at 2500 fps without being too hot. Most of my moderately loaded 16 inch 308s have all passed 2450 fps with 178 AMAX bullets. Shoot to 1000 yards just fine. They are a little blastier than long barrels, but nothing to worry about. They handle much better. Worth it to me.

My Encore is a SBR. I have a 14 inch 30 30 barrel that probably gets shot the most. 3030 does not mind the short barrel much. It is a match grade machine barrel. Very nice barrel, and much better than the TC barrels. Suggest you check them out. They will make whatever you want, and stock lots of different ones ready to ship. Price is not too bad, but not cheap.

223 out of a 16 inch barrel shoots fine out to 500 yards for targets depending on bullets. My 69 smks leave the 16 inch barrel at about 2800 fps IIRC and are just starting to get a little wonky there. The same load does VERY well at 400 yards. 77 or 80 grainers do much better at longer ranges. I think I would prefer 223 if you are doing a pistol for target work simply due to less recoil. Maybe snag a bigger caliber after you get your feet wet and get good with the long range pistol.

Check out http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/ Probably everything you could ever want to know right there. Mike is a great guy and very helpful. Easily the best encore and contender guy I have ever dealt with. He also reworks TC barrels for reasonable prices to fix alot of the nonsense they ship out.

redbullitt said:

Eheck out http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/ Probably everything you could ever want to know right there. Mike is a great guy and very helpful. Easily the best encore and contender guy I have ever dealt with. He also reworks TC barrels for reasonable prices to fix alot of the nonsense they ship out.

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One of his big claims to fame is correcting the alleged headspace problem. Funny thing; I've had several dozen T/C barrels with nary a headspace problem. I must have been lucky.

Then there are the oversized hinge pins. They're perhaps of some utility but the adjustable ones that he doesn't make are better. Don't, by the way, ream out an Encore or Contender frame to accept an oversized hinge pin.

He was also pushing Begara barrels for awhile. Those were the barrels that, at least initially, had the welds on the locking lugs fail. It was also known that they sometimes didn't fit T/C frames BUT you could send them back for a replacement as if that should inspire confidence.

The Bellm kits for trigger jobs are excellent.

My Encore Prohunter is current production. I am perfectly happy with it, and honestly don't know how it could be made better.

I'm looking for 500 yards max, but 400 is acceptable.

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IMHO, this expectation is most likely a pretty high. Shooting that far with a rifle can be a challenge, much less a pistol.

with a 15 inch barrel, what's the max range I can expect with .308?

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Shooting encore handguns in rifle calibers, like 308, is certainly challenging and I would definitely agree that the limiting factor is the shooter. The max range is going to be based on how tight a group the shooter can hold, usually supported with the long barrels. Remember, this is out of a 4lb, 15" pistol - same power but half the weight of a rifle. Brakes seem to be very popular in calibers such as this. Even rested, it wiggles more than a rifle and 308 is stout in this combination and takes practice to shoot accurately. Depending on how light the trigger is and the loads used, it really wouldn't be a surprise to start out shooting 5-10moa. With practice, the groups will tighten, but a lot if it is the fundamentals of pistol shooting - sight picture, trigger control, surprise break.