Why to people butcher and rape milsurps?

My very first deer rifle was a sporterized British Enfield .303. I bought it when I was 17, and harvested two nice bucks over the next couple of years. I loved that gun, but it was heavy as hell. I sold it and my car when I went into the army. I got over my old girl friend, but never my first rifle or my first car.

Speaking of cars...

Why did people butcher and rape all those wonderful Ford Model A? Do you know how expensive a mint factory configured 1928 Model A is?

It looks old and grumpy........

I think ive only seen one choped older car here. Mostly the old guys leave em alone, and the younger guys want muscle cars....or rice rockets

LoonWulf said:

It looks old and grumpy........

I think ive only seen one choped older car here. Mostly the old guys leave em alone, and the younger guys want muscle cars....or rice rockets

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In the 1950's it was all the rage . . . back when they were cheap and plentiful.

For a place where folks should value freedom there sure are a lot of people who think that they can dictate what other people can and can not do with their own property.

Maybe someone needs to look at the work done by "Head of the Holler" before they talk about raping Milsurps. Just sayin'

i butchered a mint swede mauser maybe 20 years ago. i gave 40$ for it. after shooting it, it was very obvious that the rifle was clearly more accurate than i would ever be able to shoot it with the iron sites.

had it tapped for a scope.well the rifle was still like 5' long. had barrel cut down and bolt handle forged and bent down.added a bold trigger and side safety. also a boyds monte carlo stock.

i now had a 100 yr old rifle that was extremly accurate and had a quality of manufacture that could not be matched by a modern rifle in the same price range.

i do not regret it one bit.

During the span of the Crime Bill handgun waiting period (94-04) all you could leave with at gun shows were long guns. At some point during that time, somebody imported a shipload of Turkish Mausers. I bought two at $50 each.

One of mine is now wearing a Richards RH/LH shooter laminate stock and a Williams receiver sight. Someone may think my 1938 ASFA Ankara Turk is a $50 collectible. I think it's better as a $150 cast bullet shooter.

When I shot pictures for a living (back in the film days) I had a genuine use for a Leica rangefinder camera but there was no chance I could afford even a halfway decent one at the salary I was making. All the collectors had put them on their shelves in mint condition, driving up the prices. I don't have much love for collectors.

Elkins45 said:

At some point during that time, somebody imported a shipload of Turkish Mausers. I bought two at $50 each.

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My custom .257 Roberts started out life as a Turk Mauser too that I got for $40. I certainly like it a lot more in it's current config . . .

Elkins45 said:

All the collectors had put them on their shelves in mint condition, driving up the prices. I don't have much love for collectors.

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This point doesn't get made often enough. While shooters are accused of "butchering and raping", maybe we should characterize the collectors as greedy hoarders?

Yeah, that's it greedy hoarders who want to drive the price up so they can profit - yeah, that's it. It's the Hunt Bros with rifles ...

OK, your point is actually well taken. That is the problem. I know guys that have ten M1's ... Nice rifle, but pick one or two and be happy. Sell the rest to folks who want one.

I also know guys who have 10 Win 94's. Pick the rifle, they got a lot ...

I don't dwell on it and would never start a thread about it but it is a good point. Collectors do this all the time, whining and complaining about how people modify their potential play pretties. We never give them a hard time for having dozens of the same gun and driving up prices.

BrocLuno said:

... I know guys that have ten M1's ... Nice rifle, but pick one or two and be happy. Sell the rest to folks who want one. ...

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<chuckle> I still have 15 M1s that I purchased 13-14 years ago and, for most of them, paid only $295/ea (most expensive, $525) ... and they all meet or exceed the CMP Service Grade criteria.

I have that many because I can. Actually, I just haven't gotten around to thinning the herd (I have 3+ multples of many milsurp flavors, rifle & pistol). Someday, maybe.

My personal preference is for milsurps that have been unmolested ... but ... I do not really care what folks do to their own property, especially if the sporterizing job is well done.

I am not a "purist" who believes in the flow of history in which we are only the current caretakers silliness.

GBExpat said:

I still have 15 M1s that I purchased 13-14 years ago

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Can I have one?

Look. This was standard practice for a couple of generations...a couple of generations ago. We can decry that it was done but back in the day, lots of people were handy with tools, and there were millions of these old rifles to be had for a song. It's what people did! Today those old wooden rifles are not nearly so numerous AND our desire for such things has changed: People can get a very serviceable and accurate bolt action rifle for just a few hundred dollars...often with scope include...often a good scope.

The world has changed.

I like to tinker with stuff. My world hasn't changed.

Guy can afford the Mona Lisa, he can draw a moustache on it for all I care.

IMO one doesn't have to be butcher a rifle to make a good conversion.
Remember when one could buy crates of rifles for $30-50 /each rifle?
Perhaps grab one of those with a friend or two, select the ones in best shape to keep as original and then
use others, perhaps some too far gone to be be able to restore at good value and one might rebarrel and use it to make a light hunter rifle or something.
So many different circumstances and reasons and in the end there have been times that we had more old and surplus rifles than people interested in them.
Now, if one has spent substantial money in an original in good condition is most likely to keep it that way for historic / collection reasons.

Greedy hoarders?

Really?

I know a guy that makes about 2/3 my salary, yet has far more extensive collection of firearms and assorted military stuff than I do.

It's a matter of your priorities. If he feels the need to live on beenie-weenies and drive a beat-up 1983 Cressida and own a few dozen FALs and M1s, and dozens of other interesting firearms, that is all your business. Similarly, if you are pulling in seven figures and want enough M1As to outfit a rifle company (1965 USMC TO&E), more power to ya'.

(Post #127 got me thinking. Saw "The Giant Gila Monster" last night, movie full of "teenagers" and their hot hods.) In the 1950s-1960s the WWII military surplus rifles that were sporterized were like the 1920s-1930's cars that were hot-rodded: it was that, or the next stop was to be scrapped for parts. Either basis of a custom or bubba job, or, sent to Numrich Arms Gun Parts or the junkyard.

That said, the .303 Lee Enfield had a relatively thin, whippy barrel and often was more stable in full military dress (and the gun less punishing to the shoulder) than the "semi-sporterized" versions popular in the 1950s. But none of the stocks or finishes I saw in the barrel at the Army/Navy Surplus store looked collectible grade. They made cheap deer rifles for the farmer who could barely afford a single shot .22 or single barrel 12ga.

ADDED: previous post ^ I suspect "beenie-weenies" and Ramen noodles have helped finance a few gun buys -- or even collections.

Carl N. Brown said:

beenie-weenies" and Ramen noodles have helped finance a few gun buys -- or even collections.

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Add spam(when its on sale) and Vienna sausage to that and you have what I eat for lunch for a month or two after an impulse purchase.........

boom boom said:

Don't alter that rifle until you check experts opinion. See my other postings. It appears to be an original sniper model which could be worth 2000 or more unaltered.

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We have already decided that value and how many made mean nothing.....they are in a museum....turn it into paper clips.

Same goes with 57 chevy and a 65 mustang....heck there are museums out there with them that never move, not touched by human hands.....that is good enough....to use the machine...no one would need that.

GBExpat said:

I still have 15 M1s that I purchased 13-14 years ago ...

I am not a "purist" who believes in the flow of history in which we are only the current caretakers silliness.

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Even as caretakers, we must prune and trim ...

lysanderxiii said:

Speaking of cars...

Why did people butcher and rape all those wonderful Ford Model A? Do you know how expensive a mint factory configured 1928 Model A is?

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Nice fiberglass repro....most likely.

lysanderxiii said:

Greedy hoarders?

Really?

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But you're okay with the "butcher and rape" characterization???

This is a very polar issue....

Like other posters have said..."back in the day" it was very different...a good hunting rifle was expensive....a surplus rifle was just that surplus stuff....if you are poor and wanted or NEEDED to hunt your hand was forced.

This is not it today....I saw an old Savage Axis...(the first one with the horrid trigger) at the walmart last weekend in 308 for $199. Really 199 for a brand spanking new rifle...with a factory warranty.....it is just so far past me why one would even bother to hack up something. This is today....not the 1950's-1960's.

Going past all the silly it is in a museum comments....guess you never like to see a P51 fly....or hear a B17 run.....there is something to seeing the machine work.

Much of this same talk is going into the vintage airplane world as well....everytime we lose one of these old birds the call goes up....there are not many left...hang them from a roof somewhere and let people "enjoy" them.

But for me and I think a great many people the enjoyment is in seeing them run, in using the objects.....it is an experience to see what our grandfathers had to tote around.....one reason you see these places where you can rent a Thompson or shoot a 50.....it is the experience of using that machine....yea you can look at it....but after you actually shoot that Thompson it brings so much more to you personally.

But I guess many will not get it.....thats ok.....you are just wrong.