3 revolvers malfunction

Sandy7758 · May 22, 2017

I am not sure if I post in the right thread bit I need help identify the problem. I have 3 revolvers freeze up on me using reload. The first two in .357 Magnum with mixed head stamp brass 10.7 grains of W296 with Winchester standard smaller primer and 158 grains RNFP bullets. The revolver are S&W M19 and Ruger Security Six both with 4 inches barrel. After about 36 rounds each both revolvers freezes up , the cylinder release moved but I had to palm the cylinder open from the right side, couldn't pull the trigger or cock the hammer. The third revolver is Ladysmith M36 with the load using a same bullet above but .38Spl brass and 4.8 grains of IMR800X. My load data came from Lee manual. Ladysmith frozen up the same way. Upon returning home I sprayed the revolvers inside and out with WD40 and they worked afterwards. I never experienced anything like this before, I have been using Unique power for years and forced to use those two powder because of the shortage.

cfullgraf · May 22, 2017

10.7 grains of W296 under 158 grain bullets in 357 Magnum is way below minimum charges in the data books that I have. W296 and H110 (same powder) do not work well in light charges and pressures become erratic especially on the high side. Stay above the minimum charge levels from the data sources when using W296.

I do not have any experience with 800-X so I'm no help there.

Dave T · May 22, 2017

I second cfullgraft's comments. 296 likes maximum or near max charges or it becomes a problem.

Dave

gotboostvr · May 22, 2017

Could be incompletely burned bits of powder gumming up the works. 296 likes a full charge and a firm crimp to burn cleanly.

Sunray · May 22, 2017

As mentioned, 10.7 grains of W296 is way below minimum for a jacketed 158.
800X isn't a jacketed bullet .38 Special powder. 4.8 is a CAST bullet load given on one non-factory load site by an unknown poster.
The whole thing is being caused by the ammo. I suspect you're having piles of crud getting into your revolvers from the ammo being loaded incorrectly. Unsafely in the case of the 296. Below minimum loads can be as dangerous as over max loads. So can making up your own data.
Buy a manual and quit using data from "some guy on the internet".

Schwing · May 22, 2017

To me, this sounds like you might have some primers that are not seated all of the way. Do the cylinders move after you take the rounds out? If so, this is probably the issue. I can't imagine any powder gumming things up that quickly. I have used 296 and 800x and never run into problems.

crankyoldlady · May 22, 2017

You identify your projectiles as 158 grain RNFP. Lead? Jacketed? Plated?

ATLDave · May 22, 2017

Unique is a great first powder to use while learning to reload. It's forgiving of certain errors, and has a wide range of fairly reliable and safe operation. The one problem in learning on Unique is if you assume that all powders are equally kind-hearted!!!

BlackJack · May 22, 2017

So how did you loosen up the cylinders and get the triggers to work?

ArchAngelCD · May 22, 2017

With such a low charge of W296 it's probable the primers are to being reseated after the round fires. That is a very low charge with that bullet. Hodgdon lists a minimum charge weight of 15.0gr W296 with a 158gr jacketed bullet.

Another possibility is the bullet pulling and jamming the cylinder. Powder fouling is also a possibility but probably low on the list.

Cannibul · May 22, 2017

WD-40 will also cause problems later on. It dries to a gummy film.

Ya really need to get a couple of reloading manuals before you blow something up. Believe it or not that .357 load could detonate on you and blow up a gun.

Slamfire · May 22, 2017

Is there crud under the extractor star?

Sandy7758 · May 22, 2017

Thank everyone for great info. I need to add some clarification here 1. RNFP is commercial hard cast 2. Primers seat with Lee hand priming tool.3. After the freeze up the cylinder,trigger, and hammer will not move after I took the rounds out. 4. I did not reload data from some guy off the Internet , I use Lee reloading manual 2nd edition. 5. Lee manual did not list starting loaf for W296,it only list do not exceed 14.5 grains that why I choose 10.7 grains (0.7 yellow dipper). 6 . My revolvers are not full Of crud, I cleaned and lubed them regularly. So it seem that W296 operates at maximum charge, I just thought it was safer to start at low end.

Sandy7758 · May 22, 2017

Cannibul said:
WD-40 will also cause problems later on. It dries to a gummy film.

Ya really need to get a couple of reloading manuals before you blow something up. Believe it or not that .357 load could detonate on you and blow up a gun.

I will pull bullets off this load , don't need my M19 blow up on me.

Sandy7758 · May 22, 2017

BlackJack said:
So how did you loosen up the cylinders and get the triggers to work?

I removed the side plate on Ladysmith and M19 and sprayed the innards with WD40 ,also sprayed into the hammer and trigger area .Just cock the hammer and sprayed WD40 into the action of Security Six.

Walkalong · May 22, 2017

Sandy7758 said:
2. Primers seat with Lee hand priming tool.

No matter how well they are seated, primers back out and stay out under low pressure. With normal loads they are re-seated as the brass slams against the recoil shield.

Sandy7758 said:
3. After the freeze up the cylinder,trigger, and hammer will not move after I took the rounds out.

Sounds like they have unburned powder in all the wrong spots.

Sandy7758 said:
4. I did not reload data from some guy off the Internet , I use Lee reloading manual 2nd edition. 5. Lee manual did not list starting loaf for W296,it only list do not exceed 14.5 grains that why I choose 10.7 grains (0.7 yellow dipper).

Start at the start load, not below, start is start for a reason, just like max is max. When a load book or PDF only lists a max, use -10% for minimum, especially with powder like W296 that need to be at or near full pressure.

Sandy7758 said:
6 . My revolvers are not full Of crud, I cleaned and lubed them regularly.

I am sure they were before firing these under powered loads with W-296.

Sandy7758 said:
So it seem that W296 operates at maximum charge, I just thought it was safer to start at low end.

Yes, it needs high pressure to burn well/consistently. It is not one that can be downloaded much. You just went a little too low is all.

Sandy7758 · May 22, 2017

Greatly appreciate all the great input. I learn a great deal from this thread

Jonesy814 · May 22, 2017

WD40 is not a good gun lubricant. With age it turns into a gummy mess.
The Lee 2nd Edition manual DOES INDEED list a starting load and a max load for EVERY load listed. It does NOT even list Winchester 296 for a 158gr lead bullet so I'm not sure where you got your data from
My Lee 2nd Edition does NOT list 800X for ANY load with ANY bullet of ANY weight for the 38 special, so once again I have no idea where you got your load data. Get a real reloading manual and read it before you hurt yourself or someone else

crankyoldlady · May 22, 2017

I see load data for IMR 800X on page 566.

Jonesy814 · May 22, 2017

crankyoldlady said:
I see load data for IMR 800X on page 566.

In my copy of Lees 2nd Edition, page 566 is 44 Magnum data

crankyoldlady · May 22, 2017

My copy was published in 2004. Data for 44 Magnum is found between 644 and 652. Weird.

Jonesy814 · May 23, 2017

crankyoldlady said:
My copy was published in 2004. Data for 44 Magnum is found between 644 and 652. Weird.

Mine came with my turret press kit which was purchased just over 3 years ago. I double checked and no X800 loads for 38 special in mine

cfullgraf · May 23, 2017

Sandy7758 said:
I removed the side plate on Ladysmith and M19 and sprayed the innards with WD40 ,also sprayed into the hammer and trigger area .Just cock the hammer and sprayed WD40 into the action of Security Six.

Once you get the actions cleaned out, you need to flush out the WD-40 and lubricate with some proper gun lubricant.

As already said, WD-40 will make a gummy mess over time as the carrier fluid in WD-40 dries.

WD-40 has its uses. A long term lubricant is not one of them.

BCRider · May 23, 2017

It is always good to check more than one data source. For IMR and Hogdon powders their reloading data center online is one good source.

For another good manual look at getting a Layman's 49th edition.

Master Blaster · May 23, 2017

The primers are backing out and dragging on the recoil shield, due to the low pressure rounds you are loading. You are probably at risk of sticking a bullet in the barrel with that load. The powder you are using needs a higher charge weight for a starting load as others have mentioned.

3 revolvers malfunction

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