I was at the range yesterday trying out some handloads in my AR with a 16" chrome lined barrel & 1:7 twist rate. One of my loads had a .224 Hornady ELD Match 52 grain bullet sitting on 26.7 grains of TAC, which chronos at about 3040 fps MV out of my rifle. I found that 7 out of the 15 rounds I shot at my targets did not show up anywhere on any of my targets, and I'm pretty sure they didn't all go through the existing holes. I noticed that the disappearing rounds would occur at random, and not all bunched together at the beginning or end of each 5 round group. I've heard that bullet disintegration can occur at very high velocities approaching 4000 fps, but it seems to me that 3040 is reasonable enough to not cause that to happen. I also had other loads that chrono'ed at about 2800 & 2900 fps, and none of those caused a problem. So, is this a problem with a too light bullet traveling at too high a MV with too high a twist rate? I'll probably just stick with the lighter loads with this bullet, but I'm stumped about this and just want to learn for future reference.
Are my bullets disintegrating in flight?
- Thread starter arnut
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243winxb
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If a thin jacketed bullet is damaged by a dirty, rough, leade/throat in the barrel, the bullet may come apart, not making it to the target.
In 27 to 30 inch barrels, heat from friction may add to the problem, as the lead core becomes liquid.
A good cleaning may help.
In 27 to 30 inch barrels, heat from friction may add to the problem, as the lead core becomes liquid.
A good cleaning may help.
Possibly.
I've had Hornady 50 and 55 grain SX bullets (thin jacket) shot above 2,800 fps at 1:9 twist leave nothing but a trail of gray "smoke" on the way to the target.
The faster the twist rate on the barrel, the greater the angular velocity (and hence angular momentum) applied to the bullet. If the bullet is not designed for such accelerations, it will come apart (likely disintegrating, not just fragmenting) on its way to the target.
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I had made up a few rounds of 9mm to test. Only 10 rounds and I was shooting at about 15 feet to make sure I hit the target well the first round on a new target made TWO holes...... i disassembled the rest of the rounds and went bad to a known good load. Still not sure if it came apart or if some body shot my target at the same time as I did.
farmerboy78
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I believe that it is completely possible, I had similar results lately while in a 1000yd match. Was shooting very well that day with wind conditions and had 2 misses after drilling the 10 ring most every shot. I'm running a 31" 243 ackley with a 1in8 twist right about 3000fps. 1st time it happened to me.
SC_Dave
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52 seems very light for 1 in 7 IMO. I suspect they could be all over the place. How was the group for the ones that hit the target?
David
David
The others were 1.5 to 2 MOA, but based on just two or three shots that actually hit the target. The lighter loads were about 1 to 1.5 MOA at 100 yds.
243winxb
Member
Try dropping back to 223 Remington data. Less RPMs
The Nato data is high pressure.
http://www.accuratepowder.com/load-data/
Nature Boy
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I've had 110g Hornady VMAX do exactly as you described in a 1:10 twist .30-06
ReloaderFred
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I've seen it happen with 52 gr. JHP bullets in the .223 with a 1 in 7" twist. The shooter was shooting at a 25 yard target just to see where they were going, as he couldn't get a bullet on target at 100 yards. I was standing directly behind him, and there was a gray dust cloud about 10' out from the muzzle with each shot, and nothing on the target at 25 yards. The centrifugal force tears the thin jacket open and it disintegrates just off the muzzle. He was loading a hot load of H335 with a bullet that wasn't designed for the tight twist of that barrel.
Hope this helps.
Fred
Hope this helps.
Fred
I didn't notice anything like that, but I will definitely be on the lookout next time I shoot this. Hopefully I won't see anything.
Noted. I didn't realize that the ELD's might have thin jackets, but it's looking like it. Live and learn.
someguy2800
Member
I had a 26" savage 1:9 that thought it was supposed to be a shotgun. You could actually see them come apart halfway to the target if you keep both eyes open. A tiny puff of smoke 50 feet out the barrel and nothing would hit the paper at 100 yards.
Easy to find out.
Start at 25 yards. If they are all over the place, they may simply be missing the target at 100. If they miss at 25 yards, they are probably disintegrating.
Move back to 50 yards. Test again. Then do the same at 75 and 100.
Start at 25 yards. If they are all over the place, they may simply be missing the target at 100. If they miss at 25 yards, they are probably disintegrating.
Move back to 50 yards. Test again. Then do the same at 75 and 100.
Remember, fast loads don't always equal the best accuracy or bullet performance. I don't have a single gun that I load for that gets its best accuracy past a middle of the road charge. You've just proven that a bullet, isn't a bullet, isn't a bullet. Every bullet for every rifle has a "best" load.
Varminterror
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I've shot about 350 of the 52 ELD-M's, almost exclusively out of a 1:6.5" 24" cut rifled Krieger. I haven't chronied these, but based on my compressed load of Varget, I'm certainly over 3300, and with my twist, I'm spinning them considerably harder than your rifle.
I'm not seeing blow ups.
I'm not seeing blow ups.
HOWARD J
Member
I had 45's shotgunning my target.
Found out I was crimping too tight & the plated
bullet was coming apart.
No crimp on 300 I loaded later & all is good
My kids are using my dies so I have to check every time I reload.
One grandkid thinks I should be supplying his Police Dept with free ammo--BS
Found out I was crimping too tight & the plated
bullet was coming apart.
No crimp on 300 I loaded later & all is good
My kids are using my dies so I have to check every time I reload.
One grandkid thinks I should be supplying his Police Dept with free ammo--BS
fotheringill
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Absolutely happened to me. I gave away several hundred 55 gr that missed the board at 100 yds entirely. I have a 1:7 in a 30" barrel. Use heavier bullets. It avoids aggravation. I would suggest going up to 69 grain initially then higher until you find groups where you are aiming.
Jim Watson
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Interesting.
MY 6.5 twist .223 will blow up book maximum load 75 gr A-Max to smithereens.
The ones that held together were accurate, I had one string at F T/R that was nothing but Xs, 10s, and misses. Scorer said he could see the fragments of the lost shots glittering in the sunlight.
For that matter, it would also blow up or deform the 90 gr SMKs I bought it for if they were loaded fast enough to stay supersonic at 1000. I caught one bent bullet on a 100 yard target while chronographing. The load was above Sierra max but below Hodgdon maximum.
Either bullet did fine if loaded down a bit and I shot them at 600 yards.
Berger and JLK 90 gr VLDs held up with the 1000 yd load.
Varminterror
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That surprises me about the 90 SMK - but I haven't shot it much yet either - I don't usually count the SMK as so lightly constructed. Doesn't surprise me about the 75 A-max - the thing is a water balloon.
Jim Watson
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Well, as I said, I was overloading it, by Sierra's standards. Anything up to what the Sierra book said was fine. It just wasn't a 1000 yarder. Obviously they know their products.
Have you tried using a twist rate program to see if your load is stable. Berger Bullets has an easy to use Twist Rate Calculator. http://www.bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/
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