One powder for both .308 and 30-06? (heavier bullets)

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Newtosavage

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At least for now, I've left the 7mm's behind and returned to 30-caliber guns. I've have easy luck with the .308 Savage model 11's as they seem to eat just about every bullet and powder combination reasonably well and many very well. But I added a Tikka T3x in '06 this year, and was wondering if anyone has found one powder that works well for both. I prefer to consolidate as much as possible so long as I can get reasonably good results.

I currently have Varget and H4895 (mainly for reduced recoil loads) and plan to shoot 150-180 grain bullets - lighter for deer and range work, and 180's for elk loads.

So far, I've found a good load of Varget under the 180's and 165's from the .308. I used up the last of my IMR 4350 in the '06 and found a good load with that powder for my 180 grain Accubonds.

Rather than stock three powders (Varget/H4895/IMR4350) I was curious if there was a way I could get down to 2 powders or even just one.

Thanks for any ideas you have to offer.
 
IMR4064. Uses a grain to a half grain more powder for similar velocities than Varget. Mind you, since you have Varget, that'll do. Varget produces lower pressures with 180's and up bullet weights.
A 165 out of either .30-8 or .30-06 will kill any game you care to hunt though. No need for heavier bullets.
 
Sunray said:
IMR4064. Uses a grain to a half grain more powder for similar velocities than Varget. Mind you, since you have Varget, that'll do. Varget produces lower pressures with 180's and up bullet weights.
A 165 out of either .30-8 or .30-06 will kill any game you care to hunt though. No need for heavier bullets.
Click to expand...

Thanks. That's what I'm thinking - Varget and 165/168's for both if I can swing it, and of course H4895 for reduced loads if I want them for practice or shorter range deer rounds.

Running some Varget under 165 SST's real soon in the '06. I already know the .308 loves that combo. Hoping the '06 does too.
 
4895 was originally developed to load 30-06 during ww2. It works well for mid power loads as will varget but if you want all the 30-06 has to give a slower powder like 4350 or reloader 19 will give a pretty big jump in performance and will take nearly 10 grains more powder. If your not a speed monger then either varget or 4895 will work just fine.
 
I use H4350 in the 30-06 but I don't get good results in the .308.

If it were me looking for one powder for the 30-06 and .308 I would try Varget, 4895, 4064 and the new IMR4166 and go with the one that delivers the best overall accuracy.

BUT, I would go with two powders since I get the best results with slower powders in the 30-06.
 
IMR4895 was introduced in 1935.

IMR4064 has given best accuracy in both 308 and 30-06 with 150 to 180 grain bullets. But it usually has to be weighed to get 3/10ths grain max charge weight spreads. Arsenal's use high speed metering for charges and IM4895 meters more uniformly, so it's the powder for economic and production speed choices.

Those powders won't shoot bullets as fast as IMR4350, maybe 50 to 100 fps slower for the same peak pressure. So you have to decide if winning the race to the target is most important or all bullets landing in the smallest area is your objective.
 
Powders I like in both 30-06 Springfield and 308 Winchester are IMR 4895, H 4895 and I also have a fondness for AA 2495. The classic being IMR 4895 but in my 308 Winchester bolt gun the AA 2495 has worked well. Varget while it works I have never had the best results with but is likely me not trying enough loads. IMR 4064 is another good option. I would suggest that from all the suggestions in the thread try and find which works best for you.

Ron
 
I use IMR4895 for nearly all of my .30 cal service rifle loads, with all bullet weights.
However, with bolt/lever/pump actions, IMR 3031 gives me the best accuracy. even with that, if I'm running over 167gr projectiles, I go back to the 4895
 
What you have will work fine. IIRC, they tout the H4895 as being more temperature stable than the IMR version.
4064 would be universal, if that's really what you want. I've had great luck with it in .308 and .30-06 and it's probably as slow as you want to go in piston gas guns (that I see in your future :p).
3031 can make for very accurate loads, but you'll see pressure signs before you get to the highest velocities doable with heavier bullets.
 
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Any way you look at it using trying to use one powder for 2 cartridges will usually result in mediocre performance from one or both. Don't try to fix what ain't broken, you have a winning combo as is. Those are the same powders I use with excellent results. It doesn't cost a dime less to pay for 2 containers of 4064 than one container of Varget and another container of H4350.
 
Good advice. Keep it coming.

My '06 showed great promise with Varget under 165 SST's today, so that was encouraging. However, it also dropped 4 - 180 grain Accubonds into a tidy 3" circle at 300 yards with what little IMR 4350 I had left over, so that load may get set aside for a future elk hunt.

H4895 reduced loads (40 grains in the '06) are showing tremendous accuracy and shootability, but are less than impressive with full power loads. So I think the H4895 will handle the Low-recoil needs for the time being.

If I can get sub-MOA groups with Varget in both guns using 165's, then I may have my answer.
 
jmr40 said:
Any way you look at it using trying to use one powder for 2 cartridges will usually result in mediocre performance from one or both. Don't try to fix what ain't broken, you have a winning combo as is. Those are the same powders I use with excellent results. It doesn't cost a dime less to pay for 2 containers of 4064 than one container of Varget and another container of H4350.
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I completely agree. I will never understand why some reloaders want to use only one powder for many cartridges? One bad result is if that powder becomes hard to find what do you do then? Since you use only one powder you don't have options or data for other powders. I have used 3 to 4 powders in every cartridge I load for. (in some cases even more like with the 45-70)
 
Sunray said:
IMR4064. Uses a grain to a half grain more powder for similar velocities than Varget. Mind you, since you have Varget, that'll do. Varget produces lower pressures with 180's and up bullet weights.
A 165 out of either .30-8 or .30-06 will kill any game you care to hunt though. No need for heavier bullets.
Click to expand...
If you think you need more than 165 grains, go to a premium bullet instead -- I use Nosler Partition Jackets.
 
ArchAngelCD said:
I completely agree. I will never understand why some reloaders want to use only one powder for many cartridges? One bad result is if that powder becomes hard to find what do you do then? Since you use only one powder you don't have options or data for other powders. I have used 3 to 4 powders in every cartridge I load for. (in some cases even more like with the 45-70)
Click to expand...

Some people are lumpers and some are splitters. ;)

Anyone tried the new RL 16 in either the .308 or '06? It seems like it could be a candidate for both.
 
Vern Humphrey said:
If you think you need more than 165 grains, go to a premium bullet instead -- I use Nosler Partition Jackets.
Click to expand...

180 grain Accubonds give me 1500 ft. lbs. of energy to 500 yards with IMR 4350. That's why the heavier bullets. They are damn accurate out of both rifles as well. I am however playing with 165's out of both and will want that round traveling 2900+ if possible.
 
jmr40 said:
Any way you look at it using trying to use one powder for 2 cartridges will usually result in mediocre performance from one or both. Don't try to fix what ain't broken, you have a winning combo as is. Those are the same powders I use with excellent results. It doesn't cost a dime less to pay for 2 containers of 4064 than one container of Varget and another container of H4350.
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly, with Varget or 4064 and a 4350 speed powder, you can load a wide variety of cartridges to full performance levels. Stocking two rifle powders is a pretty straight forward proposition.
 
Newtosavage said:
180 grain Accubonds give me 1500 ft. lbs. of energy to 500 yards with IMR 4350. That's why the heavier bullets. They are damn accurate out of both rifles as well. I am however playing with 165's out of both and will want that round traveling 2900+ if possible.
Click to expand...

Very possible with H4350 and other similar powders in the '06 (59 gr clocks 2,920 fps out of my current 22" barrel with 165 gr SGKs). I've never gotten close to 2,900+ fps with any normal barrel length .308.
 
I picked up some Superformance powder for the '06 yesterday (@ $22/lb. I had to at least try it) but if I could find some H4350 I certainly would use it. It's just very hard to find right now!
 
Gtscotty said:
My thoughts exactly, with Varget or 4064 and a 4350 speed powder, you can load a wide variety of cartridges to full performance levels.
Click to expand...
What is full performance level?

Highest muzzle velocity? (Most often the choice of reloaders}

Smallest test groups? (The choice of accuracy/precision aficianados)

Most reliable in ammo carrying and loading then shooting and extracting? (military service small arms ammo)
 
FPL for me is the most consistent day-in and day-out. For my hunting rifles, I want zero surprises.
 
Bart B. said:
What is full performance level?

Highest muzzle velocity? (Most often the choice of reloaders}

Smallest test groups? (The choice of accuracy/precision aficianados)

Most reliable in ammo carrying and loading then shooting and extracting? (military service small arms ammo)
Click to expand...

For an elk hunting rifle, which is what this is, I would say highest velocity with MOA average 5 shot groups using a temp stable powder. That is plenty accurate for killing any medium game animal that ever lived at any range 99.9% of hunters have any business pulling the trigger.

Not every loading venture needs to be viewed in the context of competitive shooting requirements. Theoretical accuracy differences between 4064 speed powders and 4350 speed powders in heavy bullet .30-06 loads are not germane to the discussion of elk hunting loads when 4350 is more than accurate enough for the purpose at hand.

As far as temperature consistency goes, from the somewhat informal testing available on the web, the top performers in the faster burn rate are Varget, H4895, IMR 4166 and AR-Comp, in the slower burn rates H4350, IMR 4451/4955, RL 16/23.
 
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I have some H4895 test loads to run today if I get the chance. The reduced loads in that powder seem to always be MOA or better. Would be a darn handy powder to develop full loads for, since I often load reduced in both the .308 and '06 with it.
 
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