SBR an AR lower... is it worth it?

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Stationary Smell

Stationary Smell

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What does a person need to know about SBRing an AR lower. I've heard you need to fill out the caliber and barrel length, correct? Can I change those as long as I can put it back to its original state? Tell me what your thoughts are... pictures are always invited too...
 
You will need to state a caliber and barrel length among other characteristics. You can change caliber and barrel length. I believe as long as you can change them back to what was approved, there's no need to notify ATF. All this within the context of a Form 1 SBR, I don't know if it's different when acquired as a factory-made SBR on a Form 4.

As far as your question if it's worth it, I'd say yes. You now have a flexible gun that may be used in many different configurations including non-NFA. And, if you decide to get rid of it you can do so easily as long as it's not configured as an SBR.
 
Aaron Baker wrote a comprehensive and very good FAQ thread in this section that is well worth the read. He's even tweaked it as time goes on to keep it accurate.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...rearms-act-frequently-asked-questions.733393/

I would definitely say it's worth it. It's like doing a form 4473 at a gun shop for the first time, you don't know what you're doing and it can be intimidating, but once you do it once, its not a big deal. Once you've done one form, then a whole new sector of firearms open up to you, you'll start looking at suppressors, short barrel shotguns, AOW's, maybe machine guns :D
 
Just to clarify, I need to fill out a form and tax stamp for each separate SBR? Just like suppressors?
 
Don't do it. Stay away from the tax stamp.

I should have listened to that advice, but I thought I was strong enough to be able to control my addiction. I've failed and have gotten sucked into the world of quiet and short stuff.

A SBR is a gateway drug. Once you get a taste, there is no turning back. Next you will crave going nuts with a shotgun and a hacksaw blade in front of your family. That will lead to the evil thoughts like $200 and 9 months is no big deal, I can handle it. But, but, it's a safety issue to have a simple metal can that makes my shooting experience better........................yeah right, it grows on you until even your family will give up all hope of an intervention program saving you from yourself.

Valuable space on your phone is taken up by a folder with pictures of paper with stamps. Your range bag gets cluttered up with multiple copies of the same darn piece of paper that seems to be more valuable to you than air.

Your gun shop adventures will change to mainly to, "What would that look and shoot like if it were half that length?" Great deals on pistols will be passed up because I can't find a threaded barrel for that, so it's worthless to me.

You look at those cheap plastic shoulder stocks that go on Glocks and go hummm, that might work!

Run while you can.

If you are not strong enough to back away, we have support meetings on this forum daily.



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Hahaha I SBRed a Glock 17. What a complete waste of money.

As to whether registering an AR lower as an SBR is worth it..................that is up to you. I honestly can't think of any real good reason to do so. They look cool. They ARE cool. But other than that I can't come up with any good reason to do it. Luckily for me that is reason enough.

Doing your first NFA transaction seems like a big deal until you actually do it. Then you find out that it was no big deal at all. It is a very simple process. And, as has been mentioned.......once you see that there is really nothing to it, you will find yourself doing more and more of them. That is, if you are into this kind of thing. Again, from a truely practical standpoint it doesn't make a whole lot of sense other than for your own enjoyment. Other than suppressors which in my opinion do have very real, very practical use.
 
Caliber, barrel lengh, and OAL are for identification purposes. They want you to notify them by writing if you no longer own the parts to assemble the specified configuration. I am unaware of any legal requirement to do so. I did once and got a written confirmation of my letter about 3 years later!

Mike
 
SBR an AR? Oh no, don't do that. Before you know it, that SBR lower spawns many variants of uppers in calibers and barrel lengths. - in my case, started with the SBR'ed lower that was for my 300 blackout. It had actually started as a 16" 300 BO. Once the stamp came in, and it was engraved, it sported the 10.5" 300 BO. Then the 5.56 10.5", then the 10.5" 7.62x39. Now, thinking of a 10.5" 22LR. And if I ever find a workable way for 9MM with a decent magwell block adapter, it will be added to the mix.
So, don't do it. It's a trap!
 
I did it for 300BO suppressed but it's nice knowing I can do whatever I want on another upper length and cal and I can drop it right on and have no worries.
 
I SBR'd a forged AR lower that bought for $50. I think if I could start from scratch I would use a nicer billet lower. One issue I ran into was converting the lower to accept a 9mm magazine. Some of the conversion blocks are inserted from the top and require the user to remove the bolt stop. This is much easier with a billet lower in which the bolt stop is retained by a screw instead of a roll pin.
 
This is much easier with a billet lower in which the bolt stop is retained by a screw instead of a roll pin.
Click to expand...
Until my stamp came back for a dedicated 9mm lower I used a modified "hair-pin" clip instead of the roll pin. OTOH if you plan to switch, do your homework and get a bottom loading block. In theory these can come out with the magazine, but most I've seen have a setscrew to lock it in place.
 
I made a 10mm SBR DI AR. The lower is dedicated to 10mm, or 10mm derivatives such as the 9x25. Which is pretty cool because I can install a 16" 9x25 upper and be good to go.
 
Just buy a registered machine gun lower and then you can put any length barrel you want on it. You can still find them for less than $20,000. (To put that into context, that's less than what a new pickup truck would cost.)

ETA: This is not as far-fetched as it seems on its face. With a registered machine gun, you are looking at probable value appreciation, possibly large appreciation. With an SBR, the resale value is close to zero (you could probably get more by deregistering it and selling it as an ordinary Title I weapon). Therefore, from the point of view of net cost (assuming that you -- or your heirs -- are going to sell someday), you would be way ahead financially with the registered machine gun. (The bureaucratic delay and the tax are the same in both cases.)
 
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A simple call to the BATFE NFA branch (304) 616-4500 will clear up all of your questions, and get you a few corrections to the misinformation here.

On the Form 1, in the context of an AR-15 platform SBR with various uppers, you only insert ONE combination of cartridge, barrel length, and overall length. Once the paperwork comes back, you ARE required to notify in writing any modification to the NFA Firearm which changes one or all of those 3. It's not an approval process, just a notification process. We have the luxury of the honor code in this system - nobody comes out to check on these modifications as long as you don't deserve a housecall - but if a guy gets caught with an SBR in a form which isn't listed on the Form 1 and which wasn't recorded in notification, there's some hot water to be found in. The pain in the butt part is that if you have multiple uppers, technically, you have to send word every time you swap. It's a little grey, in that if you convert it to a non-NFA configuration with the intent to convert it back, a guy doesn't have to notify, but I tend to do so anyway. There's also a little grey in that a guy could convert it to a non-NFA configuration, at which point you're free to transport it across state lines without approval, bring it back and convert it back. I'm not complaining, as the ambiguity tends to favor our side, and modification to the law to better clarify some of these nuances would most certainly simply end in greater restriction overall - which isn't what any of us would want.
 
On a Form 1 SBR, the required marking (the maker's name and address) can be engraved on the barrel instead of on the lower receiver. The (presumably pre-existing) serial number has to be on the lower receiver. If you do it this way, all the short barrels to be used with that receiver need to be engraved with the same information. The advantage here is that you can deregister the gun and sell it as an ordinary Title I firearm, with no stray markings on the lower receiver to reduce the resale value.
 
Varminterror said:
A simple call to the BATFE NFA branch (304) 616-4500 will clear up all of your questions, and get you a few corrections to the misinformation here.

On the Form 1, in the context of an AR-15 platform SBR with various uppers, you only insert ONE combination of cartridge, barrel length, and overall length. Once the paperwork comes back, you ARE required to notify in writing any modification to the NFA Firearm which changes one or all of those 3. It's not an approval process, just a notification process. We have the luxury of the honor code in this system - nobody comes out to check on these modifications as long as you don't deserve a housecall - but if a guy gets caught with an SBR in a form which isn't listed on the Form 1 and which wasn't recorded in notification, there's some hot water to be found in. The pain in the butt part is that if you have multiple uppers, technically, you have to send word every time you swap. It's a little grey, in that if you convert it to a non-NFA configuration with the intent to convert it back, a guy doesn't have to notify, but I tend to do so anyway. There's also a little grey in that a guy could convert it to a non-NFA configuration, at which point you're free to transport it across state lines without approval, bring it back and convert it back. I'm not complaining, as the ambiguity tends to favor our side, and modification to the law to better clarify some of these nuances would most certainly simply end in greater restriction overall - which isn't what any of us would want.
Click to expand...
...and this post is one with misinformation that a call to the BATF will clear up. You do not need to contact the BATF every time an upper with a different length barrel is used. The only time you would need to notify the BATF would be if you make a permanent change to barrel length.

I love my shorty AR. It's a pistol with an arm brace and it's fun to shoot. I've also got an SBR in quarantine I'm waiting for impatiently. To me, they're worth it, especially with a suppressor
 
MistWolf said:
...and this post is one with misinformation that a call to the BATF will clear up. You do not need to contact the BATF every time an upper with a different length barrel is used. The only time you would need to notify the BATF would be if you make a permanent change to barrel length.
Click to expand...

Any additional upper which results as an SBR IS a permanent modification, as it produces an SBR not in the characteristics of the original applied in the Form 1.

This was the exact direction provided me by the ATF when I built a 3 upper SBR 5yrs ago, and was the same direction provided when I sent in my latest Form 1 3 months ago for a 2 upper SBR. I was given bad information - the same you are quoting - by a Class 3 dealer when I mentioned the build as I paid for the can going on the front. So I called - again - the NFA branch. If all of the uppers result in the same Barrel length, overall length, and cartridge, no notice is required. If one of those 3 change, then notice is required, even though all of the uppers are "temporary," they are all also permanent in themselves. Once all of the SBR uppers are "on record," they'd LIKE people to send notification, but they know people don't, since it's a temporary upper swap.

In asking specifically: I have a 7.5" 223, multiple 10.5" in 223, 6.8, and 458, and a 9" 300, how do I need to be sure I'm compliant in building and using all of these? Their answer is to send notice every time a new upper is installed, so all of them are on record. If I intend to take it out of state hunting, it's in my best interest to be sure the latest specs match the transport request. But I don't send 5 faxes when I'm sitting in my shop swapping uppers, nor at the range when I might shoot a couple in the same session.
 
Varminterror said:
Once the paperwork comes back, you ARE required to notify in writing any modification to the NFA Firearm which changes one or all of those 3.
Click to expand...
No, this is incorrect. The ATF simply requests that you notify them if you permanently change any of those three things, but I've never once seen any indication that they required it. In fact, their website used to specifically say that it was simply a request on one of their FAQ pages, but they must have re-configured their site because I can't find it anymore.

You can change the configuration of your SBR or SBS at any time -- either temporarily or permanently -- without ever contacting the ATF. If you want, you can notify them if you're making a permanent change and you no longer possess the parts required to restore it to the original configuration, but that's simply a request, not a requirement.
 
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Call the branch - it's really that simple. I've done so multiple times, which is why I'm sharing the advice they have consistently provided.
 
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