kBob
Member
Still has to make it through the Senate and get signed but authorized 10,000 per year to be released to CMP.
That's all I know about it.
-kBob
That's all I know about it.
-kBob
Still has to make it through the Senate -kBob
I want this to happen, but I have so little confidence in the Senate at this time . . .
I have nothing to add but that I agree.I want this to happen, but I have so little confidence in the Senate at this time . . .
Won't someone think about the children?!??!?!!"This legislation is yet more evidence, as if it were needed, that the GOP is simply a pawn of the NRA and the corrupt gun industry. It would transfer vast numbers of dangerous, high powered, military assault pistols, capable of being loaded with high capacity clips to criminals across the country, further stoking violence in our cities, violence that falls disproportionately on minorities. We must stand firm against this monstrous act of violence by Republicans. "
- Chuck Schumer, Senate Minority Leader.
(Okay, in fairness, he hasn't said this yet; but does anyone really doubt that, when he does comment, it will be substantially similar? )
I'm not a military man, but that mirrors my feelings.As one who actually witnessed the last of my branch's 1911s get crated up and sent back to Crane in the early '90s ... I can't find it in myself to believe that I'd want any 1911 that CMP might release. I'd rather have a reproduction 1911 to represent what I was issued for the first half of my military career than any specimen that was sent back after the transition to the M-9 ... I simply am not gonna fork over a grand or so for a beater 1911 that probably spent 40 years at a training base.
I love the way folks have decided these guns will be offered at $1000. I also love the way folks assume they will all be "rattle traps" or shot out junk.
Yea and that will be mild compared to Tim the Clown Kaine"This legislation is yet more evidence, as if it were needed, that the GOP is simply a pawn of the NRA and the corrupt gun industry. It would transfer vast numbers of dangerous, high powered, military assault pistols, capable of being loaded with high capacity clips to criminals across the country, further stoking violence in our cities, violence that falls disproportionately on minorities. We must stand firm against this monstrous act of violence by Republicans. "
- Chuck Schumer, Senate Minority Leader.
(Okay, in fairness, he hasn't said this yet; but does anyone really doubt that, when he does comment, it will be substantially similar? )
You have made a well reasoned and presented argument for why these pistols make no sense, practically or financially. But, IMHO, this misses the point. Anyone who buys one of these (excepting the flippers, of course), is not expecting a MOA 100% reliable CCW pistol, but, rather a tangible link to US history and the great Americans who fought, bled, and won with these arms from Château-Thiery to Baghdad. Each rust pit, scratch, and ding tells a story of its service. I've had my own kids and even Millenials I work with listen, actually listen, to that story when you hand them an old, battered milsurp and let them feel the weight of history attached to it. In this digital age, that alone is a wonder to see. For a grand? I'm in.It's based on exactly what the CMP has done with Garands in the past.
Many of the 1911's which were put into storage years ago were drawn out and sent to the scrappers under Clinton. Hundreds of thousands were turned into tiny inoperative bits, along with M14's, which became desireable later as an expedient long range rifle in Afghanistan. Few got over there and even fewer were used.
What the condition of that fleet of 1911's was in was well known - they have been kicking around since, um, oh, about 1911. Most were built in the 1940s, and a large number of the total fleet were rebuilt at least once. The Army even had Pistol Trials in 1954 to replace it with a "Commander" sized 9mm with DA/SA action like the P38. All that came to a stop when it was realized that it would be expensive to buy more guns when over 2.3 million were still in inventory. It was post WWII and Korea was more important.
We soldiered on with that fleet of guns until 1984. They got rebuilt again, some for the third time, and each rebuild at arsenal level disassembles the gun, separates the parts, which are inspected as a batch tray, the worn and broken ones discarded, a few remedial operations performed on the more expensive ones, and then reassembled - which is a gunsmith level operation requiring the correct filing of trigger parts to get safe operation. Not at all like an M16 - hand fitting is required. Why weren't those parts made to print? Well during the war years it was discovered that prints weren't often available - companies rushed into production in the teens, and craftsmanship in the production line was highly variable, too. It's one reason so few Singers met spec and thousands of others were scrapped. And those were manufactured by a sewing machine company. How hard was it to do? Apparently too hard for even their capability.
So we had a fleet of guns with at least one arsenal rebuild if not three under their belt, WWII service, Korea service, Vietnam service, and in heavy use in training units. A lot may have been in NG and Army Reserve units just sitting in racks - we had a Union Switch and Railway - but for the most part we don't know which ones are in storage now. Did the Army push the worst graded ones into the mulcher or did a Property Book Officer just pick the crates by priority of need - ie his fork lift operators wanting those spots to use? At best the 100,000 left will be the wide assortment we could see in any armory, some beaters, some highly collectible, some near mint but run of the mill Remington's or Ithaca's.
And they will go thru the same hands at CMP who will determine their valuation, having already done so with tens of thousands of Garands. Why change what they know works? Good ones went to auction, the rack grade guns were put on the sales floor. At what pricing? Just under what we see them getting flipped for on GunBroker and other sites.
There is some justification in making the statements, we have no reason to think the 1911's will be treated any differently than the Garands. And because of the long drawn out process and pricing, some of us moved on. We took advantage of the market to buy other guns in .45 for half the potential cost of a CMP 1911. They are copies made overseas with cast frames but not bad ones. Other choices have been LEO turnins from departments changing their fleet of weapons as age and improvements become available. I took advantage of that market and paid $450 for one of those - a 4" DA/SA single stack made in America gun, by a maker who submitted to the 1954 Pistol trials.
It could have been the successor. It certainly was a better bargain in all stainless, holster wear only, and it shoots! Now, what does a stainless 4" Commander style 1911 run on the market? Not even close. And a CMP 1911 with marked arsenal rebuilds with a mix of parts made by an obsolete typewriter manufacturer, shotgun maker, and surplus barrel? Well speculation says if it can be shipped to your FFL when you pick it out over the internet, $750 up. That's what they sell for the open market.
add to that the condescending attitude of certain members professing to have vast superior knowledge, whom enjoy postulatingI love the way folks have decided these guns will be offered at $1000. I also love the way folks assume they will all be "rattle traps" or shot out junk.
Look, if you don't want one, don't buy one. All the B,M,& C-ing about something we don't know yet is annoying.
Meanwhile if there are folks willing to pay $1000 to the CMP that can be used to keep things running there, more power to them.
-kBob