The .264 Win Mag - An Old Idea Worth Re-Visiting

I really like the 7mm RM as a power upgrade to my 7x57. I have thought about the .264 WM but my 6.5x55SE Ruger No. 1 will do all I need in 6.5mm up to and including Elk, though I usually use either my 7mm RM or .375 H&H for them. I do think that the .264 WM is a nifty idea for Pronghorn, as they're tough to get to within 300 yards of them. I've been very happy with a .260 Rem for long distance precision shooting, shooting a 139-142gr bullet at 2850-2900 fps. I'd rather shoot a 6.5mm bullet than a .257 caliber load for speedgoats. YMMV.

Harry

There hasnt been a proliferation of throat erosion regardless of saami specs. That having a lot to do with shoulder angles and pressures, etc. If I have to magnum it up with a cart that has a history of bad throat erosion then i maybe breaking out my trusty 300 win mag.

I have had 3 of them and now still own 2 pre 64s ; a 59 Westerner 26" and a 62 Featherweight. The featherweight is a cherry , but has been shot a little to sight in. The Westerner was accurate for me enough that I took a special class in Az last century that taught how to on pre 64 Model 70s only ; slim the stock down with an oil finish that removed checkering, put on modern swivel bases, and full length fiberglass pressure bed/ reinforced the stock . Th results created the perfect antelope rifle for me after I put Warne steel maxi mounts and rings on with a Leupold Vari x3 4-14x50 . I ruined a lot of it's resale value tho. So probably the 90% 1962 Winchester model 70 Featherweight is available for $1000 unscoped before I put it on GunBroker as I shoot a 1999 featherweight stainless .270 WSM .. I reloaded .264 Win since the late 70s when I had a Sako Forrestor in the caliber. I ended up using a case full of Hogdon H870 and Sierra 140 Game kings for very long range hunting. I erroded that barrel a little by 1990 and sold it. I replaced it with the Westerner in 1992 which was a little rough around the edges but shot like a house on fire, shooting sub MOA with the old Sako loads and had a trigger to die for. When I found the cherry Feather weight a few years later I just stashed it as I knew it would go up from the $700+ I paid for it and the 22" barrel was real loud !

I'd beg to differ on the recoil of the 358, but, this is a thread about the 264 WM. I purchased mine when my shoulder told me my 30-06 Mountain Rifle and 300 WM Blaser were causing more damage and just weren't as much fun to shoot. I stuck the 30-06 in the safe and sold the Blaser. With that I bought a Model 70 with 1/9" twist and 26" barrel. Using RL33 I can push the 142 gr NABLR at 3250 fps. 3 shot groups of .4 and 5 shot groups (letting the barrel cool for shots 4 and 5) of under .5.
I've only had the chance to play with it out to 400 but it definitely works out to that range. Used it to take my 5x5 elk @ a 'whopping' 137 yards this past fall.
Recoil is less than either the 30-06 or the 300 WM I have/had. A little sharper than my 308.
I've shot 50 rounds at the range in a full day, letting the barrel cool between each 3-round segments. Really like that rifle.

Another "closet" 264 Win. Mag. fan here. Buddy of mine once had one and it impressed the heck out of me. Back in the 1980's & 90's the late gun writer, Bob Milek, also spoke highly of it as I recall. I always thought of it as a superb open country deer and antelope round that also works well on elk with proper bullets. It's on my "I always wanted one of those list" but now that I'm retired and already have rifles suitable for just about anything I'll ever hunt it's starting to look like a 264 won't make it into the rotation. Although I've been known to come up with some pretty creative "reasons" for "needing" another rifle.

Nice argument for the cartridge. I have a friend who had a Model 70 Westerner back in the 60's. It gave him a very nice crescent-shaped scar over his right eye--but he killed several deer and pronghorns with it after he got over his flinch. The hot loads (and too many long range jackrabbits) ended up wearing the barrel out. He ended up trading it for a Winchester Model 88 in 308, which he thought of as an ideal deer rifle.

While I have managed to collect a Model 88 in 308 (with a Weaver 4x scope), I have never come across a vintage Model 70 in 264 WM. But your argument makes it tempting...

I'd say the .264 kicks very little more than a .270 certainly no more than a .270 WSM . It DOES seem flatter than a .270 or 7mm mag out at 500 yards and beyond. I only have 1 600 yard venue I havent been to in 4 or 5 years but The gong out there was easier to hit with the .264 Westerner with 140 grain Sierra Boat tails at a little over 3150 at the muzzle, versus my new at the time .270 WSM with 150 grain Barnes TX at 3000 fps or 7mm RM with 150 spitzers at 3100 . All out of a lead sled and those loads have proven to be inch or less per MOA more or less. Also weird about 6.5mm accuracy I've found, and I had quite a few different ones, is the bullet moa wise seems to tighten up as the distance open up, Maybe why the new wave of 6.5mm rounds are becoming popular.

I did have a 6.5x.300 Weatherby mag in the later 80s , a bull barreled 700 Remington with a 20x Lyman scope that I had about a year or so before deciding it was probably gonna ruin the barrel in a few hundred shots and at 19 or so pounds was rather unweildy for hunting . On the other end I still have a Bulberry 6,5 Ugalde (.223 blown out) TC barrel . Now thats a fun cartridge ! The old 6.5 x55 Swedish and I go way back , I still have a little M94 Carbine I can't part with.

I have an Encore and I got my hands on a 264 MGM barrel. The darn thing shoots like a house afire. I've killed several deer with it. Some out past 300 yds. It does very well and the recoil is about like a 270 Winchester.

Not Happy With Llama Bob!

I keep finding myself looking at 264 WinMag rifles on GB...

Hah, damned enablers! Ive been have .264 dreams too lol.

I have been shooting a 264 since 1974. I bought it not completely finished at a small gun shop. It's a Springfield 1903A3 action with a JAL 26" barrel. It was on a half carved stock, bedded well and varnish all over it, even on the metal parts in places. The guy that it was being built for took it from the gunsmith like that on an elk hunt and then put in the gun shop on consignment. Every deer I shoot with it drops in its tracks and I'll never sell it. The only bullets I use are Nosler partitions and Ballistic Tips. The only powder is H870. It shot a 2" group at 325 yards the last time I shot it.

I had a smith build me a 358 Norma MAG on a Parker Hale action. Way too much for common deer but should be ideal for the bigger critters.

TR

I've always been interested in the cartridge.

The drawback for me, as a handloader, is the belted cartridge.

Then again, you can get the 6.5 Win Mag in a model 70, but they don't offer it in the 6.5x284 that I would prefer.

^6.5x284 is nice, I know a guy with a 30" barreled savage in that caliber and he's a believer.

If I lived out west id have a vintage 264. It's the quintessential vintage zapper to me... But at present I have little use for one. It's too much for where I hunt and there's not any marmots to practice on.

BUT i do have a long action m70 zastava that needs a 6.5-06 barrel

HB

Im in the process of building a .264 as a "lite"(for me anyway) rifle.
The plan in my head for the .264 would be a medium/heavy sporter. With the extra capacity and powders like Retumbo, id expect to better the 6.5-284 and 06 by atleast 150fps for any given barrel length, perhaps more (at least for the x284)depending on the actions they are built on and bullet weights. For the practicals out there might not be worth it, but I want one....

LoonWulf said:

Im in the process of building a .264 as a "lite"(for me anyway) rifle.
The plan in my head for the .264 would be a medium/heavy sporter. With the extra capacity and powders like Retumbo, id expect to better the 6.5-284 and 06 by atleast 150fps for any given barrel length, perhaps more (at least for the x284)depending on the actions they are built on and bullet weights. For the practicals out there might not be worth it, but I want one....

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Worth it to me and "I want one" negates all "practical" arguments . I'm going for the 6.5 trifecta eventually, Grendel, .260, .264 so that none of them get lonely but I also REALLY look forward to launching a Berger or ablr to the end of the rainbow the next time my buddies and I get together to boost .264 sales

horsey300 said:

Worth it to me and "I want one" negates all "practical" arguments .

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Well put!

Llama Bob said:

For all NA game between predators and elk/moose for the reloader, it's hard to argue there's a better cartridge than the .264 WM and its wildcat ballistic twins (6.5 Leopard/WSM and 6.5 SAUM).

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Elk and moose, Seriously?

You would have a hard time convincing most elk and moose hunters that anything smaller than 30 cal. is adequate.

Probably a very good western cartridge for deer, antelope and predators but just about any 6 mm will work there with less recoil.

Who only has one rifle for all NA game?

If you want one you should have one, but it falls short at the top of the scale.

CoalTrain49 said:

Elk and moose, Seriously?

You would have a hard time convincing most elk and moose hunters that anything smaller than 30 cal. is adequate.

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Many people, including professionals, that actually live in elk and moose country find sub 30 cartridges to be just fine for those animals. John Barsness wrote an excellent article touching on the subject.

I won a raffle for an elk hunt in 1984 and took my .270 which was the only centerfire I had. The other hunters in camp made fun of my pop gun but the guide service owner said it was fine and wished more clients would bring .270's instead of larger cartridges they were afraid of and shot poorly.

If I ever go again I'll take the same .270 and my 30-06 as a backup.

Excerpted from the article by John: "Hunters who haven’t hunted (or even seen) a brown bear, elk or any other game bigger than deer, often suggest much larger cartridges than most local hunters use for the same game. This is particularly true of elk. Many hunters from east of the Rockies apparently think elk wear armor, so feel anything less than a .300 Magnum bullet might bounce off, while most residents of elk states use the same cartridges used for whitetail hunting back east, such as the .270 Winchester or .30-06."

https://gunsmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/myth1.jpg

CoalTrain49 said:

Elk and moose, Seriously?

You would have a hard time convincing most elk and moose hunters that anything smaller than 30 cal. is adequate.

Probably a very good western cartridge for deer, antelope and predators but just about any 6 mm will work there with less recoil.

Who only has one rifle for all NA game?

If you want one you should have one, but it falls short at the top of the scale.

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Yes seriously, look at the sectional density of moose and elk loads, .264 can push the 142 to 160 hard enough for all intended interests at practical ranges.

Here's 12 of the best elk cartridges around today.

http://www.fieldandstream.com/12-best-rifle-cartridges-for-elk-hunting

264 WM isn't there but the 6.5 Creedmoor is. It was listed as marginal. So I guess you could say the 264 would fall in the marginal class.

Jim Zumbo, the hunting editor of outdoor life, said 7 mm/150 was minimum.

http://www.outdoorlife.com/our-favorite-rifles-for-elk-hunting

30 cal. something or other is preferred by most guides and elk hunters. Hard to dispute that.

If you want to shoot elk with a 6.7 nobody is saying it can't be done. I'm just saying it probably isn't your best bet.

CoalTrain49 said:

Here's 12 of the best elk cartridges around today.

http://www.fieldandstream.com/12-best-rifle-cartridges-for-elk-hunting

264 WM isn't there but the 6.5 Creedmoor is. It was listed as marginal. So I guess you could say the 264 would fall in the marginal class.

Jim Zumbo, the hunting editor of outdoor life, said 7 mm/150 was minimum.

http://www.outdoorlife.com/our-favorite-rifles-for-elk-hunting

30 cal. something or other is preferred by most guides and elk hunters. Hard to dispute that.

If you want to shoot elk with a 6.7 nobody is saying it can't be done. I'm just saying it probably isn't your best bet.

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There once was a time when anything less than a magnum was marginal for whitetail according to the magazines, a 6.5 cm is higher than only the Grendel in the 6.5 family. Elk have been taken with .243s, .30-30s with 150 gr loads, and other likewise "marginal cartridges" by actual hunters, the 6.5 Swede has killed more elk class game than could begin to be tallied. If we're quoting people, Ron Spomer says to pick your best deer cartridge, put the best bullets in the case that you can, and put those bullets on your target as accurately as you can to kill elk, and don't stop shooting till they're down. Whether you're woofing a .35 whelen or a .243, the bullet selection will make so much more difference. Should a person expect a .264 wm to get a knockdown shot with a 100 gr ballistic tip? Pfffttt no. But considering that the .30-06 launches THE elk hammering 180 gr bullets at 2800 fps with a sectional density of .271 and is THE most versatile cartridge for American game, we'll compare that to either the 130 bonded s.d. of .266 at 3100 fps or a 140 gr with an SD of .287 or 142 s.d. .291 at 2980 fps.....frontal diameter is not as big of an issue if you stay within the bullet's velocity operating window... this does not even cover the monometals which more than compensate for a lack of s.d. in terms of penetration... the 6.5s all offer this lethality with equal or less recoil than the 06, which of course has it's own obvious benefits. I'm not saying to trade in ye olde 06 for a hot 6.5 but to call the .264 marginal, is too funny. I don't mean to disrespect anyone, but sources that get paid for advertising are suspect.

For bonus points for the REALLY big critters, I'll throw in the 160 gr round nose trucking along at 2850 fps with an s.d. of .328 cuz 'Murica and the .264 say I can