What do you do when you find you're not alone?

You read about these stories fairly often, animal attacks and hunter shoots in self defense. I wonder how often lions and bears are shot opportunistically without a tag in the pocket and a story gets cooked up so you don't get in trouble.

I don't want this hassle and I buy a lion tag every year because if I see a lion I want to shoot it. $15 a year is cheap insurance against that. I buy a bear tag if I'm in a bear unit during bear season for the same reason, but lion is an auto-buy.

Regardless, if I feel I'm in danger and shoot a dangerous animal in what I feel is defense, I'm gonna report it. If I drop a charging bear at 5 yards I'm gonna do my best to make sure it ends up on my wall. If it's justified I'm not gonna hide from it.

Every story I've read about shooting am animal in self defense does not involve charges. It's not poaching.

Lots of unnecessary killing of wildlife takes place BUT how does one know if it was really unnecessary unless you let it play out to the end. Just like a self-defense killing, you need to feel your life or someone else's is threatened. Whether it really is or not would mean waiting too long in many cases.

I kill every cottonmouth I see, tag or no tag.
My 12 y.o. son and I were walking down a fire lane cut early one morning to get to our stands. A cottonmouth tried to bite me as we walked by a small thicket. I killed him with a machete and 6 more on the way back out after hunting.
They could make a law against killing cottonmouths and make it a felony and I'd still kill every one I saw.

Hey, water moccasins are God's critturs too.

VThillman said:

Hey, water moccasins are God's critturs too.

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Maybe you don't have those evil critters in your area. I don't even kill rattlesnakes anymore but cottonmouths are evil. They try to get you, even for no reason.

No poisonous snakes at all in my area; very few in the state. I've read about water moccasins' "unfortunate attitude", and would kill them as a precautionary measure on sight. I think it's safe to say that not all of God's critturs get along.

Bob, I am a member of another gun forum, where 'leg pulling' is common practice. Sorry about carrying it over here.

To be technically correct there are no poisonous snakes. If you bite something and get sick or die what you ate was poisonous, If something bites you and you get sick and die it was venomous.

As to snakes. I wont tolerate venomous snakes near the yard or house, especially with young kids around. Non venomous snakes are welcome. In the wild any snake that I can see and have time to aim at and shoot, I can step around and avoid. It is the ones you don't see that get you. Carrying a gun with snake shot or with protection from snakes in mind simply isn't something I concern myself with.

I've caught bobcats and coyote stalking me on several occasions when calling turkey or deer. Probably many more times when I never saw them. In every case they made a hasty retreat as soon as they realized I wasn't a turkey or duck. At least one waited in ambush early one morning before sunup as I walked into a beaver pond to duck hunt. He probably thought I was a deer since I was walking without a light. I put my right foot down less than 3' from it before it bolted.

I've never heard of a black bear trying to steal a hunters game. But in areas where people are common some have learned that backpacks and tents have food. I know of one problem black bear here in GA that forced the closure of a popular day hiking area for a few months. Hikers had been feeding it and it got pretty brazen. Actually sneaking up to hikers from behind and stealing packs off their backs. The DNR closed the area, caught, tagged and released the bear. Told everyone that if hunters killed it in during hunting season they'd open the area next spring. If not killed by hunters, they would kill it before spring and re-open the area. I never heard exactly what happened, but assume a hunter probably got it. The area opened in the spring.

I've camped in Yellowstone twice. Knowing grizzly were present made for poor sleep at night even though I still haven't seen one. That is about the only animal in the park I've missed.

A venomous snake does no more to balance an ecosystem than any other predatory snake, BUT, unfortunately, venomous snakes have common negative impact upon their human neighbors - be it through human contacts, or much more frequently, through livestock injury & death. Given no upside, and potential downside, I'll happily kill any venomous snake anywhere I find one.

As for the scenario in which a large NA predator/scavenger wants to rochambeau for my hunted quarry, I'll make that decision when and if it ever happens for me. If a predator rushes in fast enough such I don't have opportunity to retreat, OR if the predator were territorial enough such it would continue pursuing me after I abandoned the quarry, OR any other instance in which my life is threatened, I have no qualms about defending myself, nor about defending that decision to the conservancy officers I would notify thereafter. If I felt as though I could walk away from a carcass (or partial) and avoid the need to kill the natural predator, I'd prefer that option - and in that case, I would not consider that to be wasting of the game animal. Sure, I don't get to eat it, but if a predator relieves me of it, I can be certain the game isn't going to rot in the sun... I'll readily admit, if I'm sitting over a trophy bull, I'm more apt to work harder to fend off the predator than I would be if I were sitting over a meat doe. I'd also be prone to consider the condition of the animal - if it's looking overly gaunt and underweight, poor coat condition, obviously injured or sick - i.e. any other indication the animal is unable to hunt on its own, such taking MY quarry is its only option, I'm more prone to take the predator too, rather than giving it the game and merely delaying its pending death by starvation.

Sometimes, the right move is to punch the bully in the nose, sometimes, the right move is to walk away.

I've got a couple feeling on this. I always have a full size pistol with 2 mags on me for the 2 legged and the 4 legged but I'm more afraid of the 2 legged and the coyotes and feral dogs around me. Some might not agree with it but ill be damned if I'm going to let a dog bite me, cost me time of work and a lot of money in bills so it will get a warning shot and if he wants to keep coming I'm sorry but hes getting shot.

coyotes are very thick in some of my areas and yes if I see one and can get a shot I will take it because they have no predators in my state and I don't see rabbits, squirrel or pheasants now and they are starting to kill deer.

as far as trying to take my kill. you guys might look at me differently but I'm an animal lover and also a hunter but if its hungry enough to try and fight me for it then guess what I can go to the store or McDonalds and eat but that animal probably hasn't eaten in days. I've noticed stray cats and ill grab a couple chicken nuggets and strip the bread and throw them out for them. I live in the country and all the vegetable and fruit scraps go in the woods for the coons, possum, rabbits, etc. if a coyote comes up and tries to take my kill depending on my mood he might get a bullet to thin the population and I might say the hell with it and let them have it. if the animal has young hands down they are getting the kill. if your worried about a rack it will be there in the morning after they eat.

When I think of situations like this i cant really see a coyote, bob cat, lion, bear, etc. actually coming full bore at you to take your kill but more linger around and maybe make some noise but set off a round or two and they will scoot. for the ones that get brave and close the distance and kick the aggression up to 10 then they might get a bullet. would i feel like a giant *****-yes! would i go home without getting hurt-yes!

I am a sport hunter, my next meal is assured, deer or no deer. If I were a truly subsitence hunter, I would have a different perspective, however:

The "rights" to a kill is not a boundary that any animal can understand. If you as an apex predator can bully/intimidate/bite/claw/ kill your way to a meal, as a predator, it's what you do, that's what mama taught you.

Not doing that insures your demise.

The only way I would shoot a bear, or other apex predator in that situation, is over the rights to my hide.

Take my deer, ok, got it; bon appetit. Helluva story to tell later.

Chew on my leg, you get extra .429 nostrils.

If I'm not mistaken, in Oklahoma we are allowed to carry a firearm (pistol) for protection during bow season as long as we have our CCL. If we are being threatened we are allowed to take action to defend ourselves. I would imagine this is from human and animal threats alike.

if you want more deer, shoot yotes, they will run down a doe giving birth and eat the fawn as its being born and the mother if they can. as for snakes if around camp or the house and poisonous i end their career. the black snake and gardner snake my cat brought in were left go, the yote was not. eastbank.

SoonerMedic said:

If I'm not mistaken, in Oklahoma we are allowed to carry a firearm (pistol) for protection during bow season as long as we have our CCL. If we are being threatened we are allowed to take action to defend ourselves. I would imagine this is from human and animal threats alike.

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And you would be correct. However, if you shoot a bear or cat over your kill, it better be close to the kill. You drop a bear or cat at 50-100 yards from your carcass and, well, "Lucy!? You got some 'splainin to do!"

Never had an unfriendly run in while in the field. Been eye balled by folks a few times driving in and out of hunting areas. Nothing really aggressive, dangerous, out here besides feral dog packs that pop up from time to time. Corner a big pig and you might get trampled on its way out, which has happened to me before. My buddies dad got run over by a doe a when we were in highschool......
Wild cattle can be a little spooky, but rarely where your on the ground with them.

so mostly i just mind my business, be nice to folks when i run into them while hunting, and stay the hell out of the way of stuff trying to step on me...even knee highs...

BigBore44 said:

And you would be correct. However, if you shoot a bear or cat over your kill, it better be close to the kill. You drop a bear or cat at 50-100 yards from your carcass and, well, "Lucy!? You got some 'splainin to do!"

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Luckily I don't have to worry about bears. I think my biggest threat here would be coyotes and POSSIBLY a mountain lion. Though from what I understand a mountain lion is rare around here.

When I see another person on the Tundra or in the Mountains or on the Ocean, we generally cruise over and meet them. Talk 'shop' about the hunting, the trails and intervillage gossip, have a smoke. Theres very few hunters/trappers we dont know in our trails. But, people kill more people than animals do around here.

We have all three Bears here, Black, White and Brown.
Keep a loose dog, sing a song, play a radio, piss a 'fence' around the camp and no matter how many Seals are piled up, Caribou being gutted and butchered by the river side or Salmon drying on the Rack, the Bears stay away. The 'locals' here in the Arctic have their ways and habits to stay 'bear proof'.
The exception to this (there's always an exception) last fella I know that was mauled was Jacob Stalker Jr. in Point Lay, a ways up north yet of me, and the Polar Bear ate him. Jumped him in the village and dragged him to the sea ice, a young emaciated Boar, back in '92 or so.

Wolves here never go after people here, fact is, there's no old Eskimo storys about Wolf attack, either , and they 'tell all' in those tales! Wolves will go after the Dogs in a dog team however, and just keeping a fire going at night prevents that.

Feral Dogs were an Eskimo 'disaster'. A team gets away from its master some how, and they get hungry after a couple days, yet do not really know how to hunt for themselfs, but they know the trails to the various camps and are not afraid of people, so grown men, little kids, etc being outside alone or playing and 5 or more Huskys show up and attack from 5 different directions is a horrible 'eaten alive' death.

Another exception would be the last guy that died of a Wolf attach was my Father in laws father in law, Punekok Sampson who lived in Noorvik, when a rabid Wolf was fighting in his Dog yard and he got bit. They caught up with that Wolf and killed it, but Punekok died in Kotzebue from the Rabies he contracted, so thats the 'exception to the rule'.Had the Wolf been 'normal' it would have never happend.

Fox's can get a guy too, with rabies.
Fox of all types up here are well known for Rabies, its endemic, and three times in 29 years Ive had to kill crazy Fox's. The worst was one in my tent one morning, I beat it to death with a meat cutting board I happend to grab in the semi darkness

Here in the Arctic, the animals do not have much interactions at all, unlike more populated areas where Bears, Wolves, etc. are accustomed to people in their woods, fishing by them, jogging trails, ect. I think its this close interaction that brings on the problems people have with wild animals. In my game unit, theres more square miles than the state of Indiana, and less than 9,000 people total.

I know dozens of people who have had run ins with Moose, some very devastating. Some because they dont fear people, some because they were afraid of people. The best Moose is a Dead Moose LOL!!

Excluding hunts on military bases, I have carried a sidearm while hunting everytime since age 13. Too many close encounters with cats (and a few bears) have forged my perspective.

Im usually all for live and let live. But if im being threatened, or feel like im in danger, the im going to lay down the hammer.

We have bob cats,blackies ,yotes and mountain lions (encon says no mountain lions in NYS ,but thats a load of crap). We cant carry handguns during bow season and where I hunt there is a fair amount of yotes. Yotes are really the only critter around here I worry about. And man is that an eerie feeling when walking to or from your stand and a group of them starts yip,yodel,and howling around you,and all you have is a string and stick!

wankerjake said:

Regardless, if I feel I'm in danger and shoot a dangerous animal in what I feel is defense, I'm gonna report it. If I drop a charging bear at 5 yards I'm gonna do my best to make sure it ends up on my wall. If it's justified I'm not gonna hide from it.

Every story I've read about shooting am animal in self defense does not involve charges. It's not poaching.

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No, it's not poaching, but in my state, any animal shot in self defense is confiscated by the DNR. This is to lessen the likelihood that someone without a tag/kill permit doesn't shoot something just for the rug/skull. Still, most every year I read about a bear shot in self defense only to read the follow up story where, after a thorough investigation, the supposed victim is now being charged with shooting an animal out of season or without a tag/kill permit. I would have no qualms about shooting an animal in self defense and certainly would report it to the proper authorities. If it truly is an attack, one should be happy just to have their life and able to go home to their loved ones. According to our DNR, the majority of black bears shot in "self defense" were not really attacking, just the person with the gun wasn't waiting to find out.

As for venomous snakes....those are all protected by law here too. I suspect one better have fang marks somewhere on their body before they shoot.

Around here the biggest threat I face in the woods is from deer ticks and "grows" close to harvest. My CWC protects me from the latter, and DEET helps with the former. They say odds are, once you have Lyme's you can't get it again. I'd rather not count on the odds.

I'm never alone in the woods. My voices keep me company.

BigBore44 said:

I'm never alone in the woods. My voices keep me company.

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Well, that too!

About 8 years ago i was tracking a wounded hog and got a funny feeling. There was a large male cougar on the bank 20 yards away licking his chops like i was his next meal. He got a muzzleloader bullet in the chest.

Know several guys who have been bitten by poisonous snakes, mostly rattlers. One mans hospital bill was just shy of $200,000. Last year a Marine was badly bitten by a huge western diamondback in the wildlife refuge. He lost his leg.

i kill rattlesnakes, moccasins and copperheads. My old Toyota pickup is pre-programmed to lock up the back wheels on rattle snakes crossing the road.

I come from a law enforcement family, including game warden. Typically if your going to claim self defense from an animal your not supposed to be shooting a couple of things need to happen. 1 you call your local Warden and not only explain your situation but take him to where it happened. He's going to want to corroberate your story with evidence.2nd, He's going to need to examine said attacker, again to corroberate how you said it happened. These facts had better line up. 3rd, the alleged attacker better have powder burns on it.

There really aren't any predatory animals to worry about where I hunt. I suppose a coyote could be a problem but I have never come across more than one at a time and they are always leaving the area as fast as possible.

People on the other hand are a problem. Meth is a big problem in southern Ohio, and between people making it and people stealing things to pay for it, it's not uncommon to run into somebody mixed up in it. I have had 2 run ins while trail riding my horses. Both times they demanded to know what I was doing there and where I was going and seemed very upset that I was there, despite it being a public area. Both times I was polite, but didn't encourage conversation and got on my way as quickly as possible, without just turning my back on them.

Whether I'm hunting, camping, or riding horses I pretty much avoid other people as much as possible unless it is in a designated camping area where I still keep to myself but try to be neighborly. If I pass somebody on a road or trail and they are obviously there for recreational reasons, I will be friendly but get on my way as fast as possible. If they aren't also on a horse, or obviously a hunter/hiker/bird watcher or whatever I avoid them as much as possible.