Mortar that shoots a mile?

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rockyboy

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Mortar that shoots a mile. Well that's what my other neighbor said he wanted when he saw the cannon I had made my other neighbor. Pic in another post. I told him mortars are not designed to shoot great distance. He said, "Well you asked and that's what I want!" i'll ask around, I told him. So here I am. I'm thinking of using a round piece of stock about 4" in Diameter and giving it about a 50 cal. bore. Depth of bore about 5" so I can pack the crap out of it. I think this should give me plenty of steel for safe shooting and enough bore length to get the shot going. What do you think. Would 1.5" of BP shoot a 50cal ball anywhere dear a mile? Other designs or thoughts? Thanks all. Personally I don't think it's doable as a mortar. And I don't think there is anywhere around here that we could check it. The last time I tried to chrono a cannon I had to buy a new chrono. So....
 
A howitzer I could see. A mortar that shoots a mile would have to go into low orbit before it came back down. I'm also not sure how he would ever verify how far it shoots, as you could never see the impact a mile down range. I always thought the whole fun of it was to see the dirt get kicked up downrange.
 
Even if it was possible, why would you want neighbor (who is ignorant of the implacations) with a weapon where "know your target and what is around and beyond it" is just about impossible to verify?
 
Back in the day..... with 4 pounds of black powder and a 45-degree launch angle, the 10-inch mortar could lob a 87-pound ball out to 2100 yards.

Discounting air resistance, a muzzle velocity of 440 ft/sec with a 45-degree launch angle should give you 6000 feet.
 
A mile isn't as far as you think. It's only 1760 yards. Mortars were used by the Ottoman Turks Constantinople in 1453 that fired its stone shot an Italian mile. That's about 1855 meters. A little over 2000 yards.
Tell you I wouldn't be making any .50 cal gun that can fire a mile for anybody. Think liability.
 
Sunray said:
Mortars were used by the Ottoman Turks Constantinople in 1453 that fired its stone shot an Italian mile.
Click to expand...
The purpose of that Ottoman artillery was to batter down the walls of the city, which required a relatively flat trajectory rather than a high-angle trajectory. So it would be a misnomer to call them "mortars." BTW, these guns were cast out of bronze locally, under the supervision of a renegade Hungarian Christian engineer, Orban. (He was reputedly killed when one of his guns blew up.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orban
http://www.historynet.com/the-guns-of-constantinople.htm
 
Something 50 cal, just tell him it goes a mile, not like you could ever hit something to prove it anyway.

For chunking stuff bigger is better to see and a few hundred yards is far enough to go to retrieve them.

 
One park employee told me they used a pound of powder in their mortar and launched the shell a mile away. They were only supposed to use a little for an anemic push of the shell out of the barrel so the park goers could watch it in flight. Well, the four of them were drunk, put in a pound and let loose. Then they realized they could have killed someone. Opps. They formed a skirmish line and walked in the direction of the ball and found it a mile away. Nothing underneath it thank God. After that the Park Service proscribed any more mortar demonstrations.
 
I agree with all of you. I pretty sure its a pride of ownership thing over any practice use. Actually, I'm sure of that. That being said, for you folks who have a bigger brain than I, and that being most of you, would an inch and a half of fast BP at 50cal push a ball a mile? If the math works then the mortar works and enough said, testing done on paper.
 
Rockyboy, in the real world - where air resistance matters - you will need the right combination of muzzle velocity and projectile ballistic coefficient. For what it's worth, Hatcher's Notebook cites the extreme range of the .45 ACP (234 gr FMJ, 820 ft/sec) as 0.93 miles.

Various manufacturers list the ballistic coefficients of their .45/230 FMJ bullets as 0.18 to 0.20. You should be able to approximate that ballistic coefficient with a two-inch-diameter lead ball.

I have my doubts that you could drive a two-inch lead ball to 820 ft/sec with a five-inch blackpowder barrel.... maybe a longer tube is needed. It sounds like you could use one of these gadgets -

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/523157/labradar-ballistic-velocity-doppler-radar-chronograph?cm_mmc=pf_ci_google-_-Shooting+-+Chronographs,+Wind+Meters+&+Timers-_-LabRadar-_-523157&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8ouY343s1QIVAQ9pCh1OBwtyEAQYASABEgIdvfD_BwE

EDIT - to address your original question, a .495 lead ball (180 grains) has a ballistic coefficient in the neighborhood of 0.07 at supersonic velocities (or 0.05 at subsonic velocities)..... the required muzzle velocity appears to be beyond blackpowder capabilities.
I found an online calculator where you can plug in the numbers and see the results -

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmdist-5.1.cgi
 
Last edited:
AlexanderA said:
The purpose of that Ottoman artillery was to batter down the walls of the city, which required a relatively flat trajectory rather than a high-angle trajectory. So it would be a misnomer to call them "mortars." BTW, these guns were cast out of bronze locally, under the supervision of a renegade Hungarian Christian engineer, Orban. (He was reputedly killed when one of his guns blew up.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orban
http://www.historynet.com/the-guns-of-constantinople.htm
Click to expand...

I read some information on the Siege at Constantinople.

If I remember correctly the Turks couldn't breach the walls. The story was that an outside gate had been left open and they were able to get in the walls. Then They Overwhelmed the Christian defenders.
 
To quote a source. "The 8-inch and 10-inch (Civil War) Siege Mortars had maximum ranges of 2,225 and 2,064 yards respectively. The 13-inch Seacoast Mortar had a maximum range of 4,300 yards. Their effective ranges were much shorter."
Military and recreation objectives are much different. Safety is paramount! Entire gun crews were wiped out by failing gun explosions. That's an unacceptable risk.

Recreational artillery is often sub-bored to maintain as much metal around the powder as possible. The other objective would be to see the round land. After a couple hundred yards, what's the point? Be safe, read up and have fun.

Coehorn.jpg
 
OOhh nice pic! I wanna shoot it! Yeah, I think i'll just tell him that it shoots a mile. It's a gift horse and I don't expect him to check it's mouth. Hey ofitg! I've been wondering about you. Hope your retired and have started a retirement business. I've not shot a cannon with an electronic fuse or shot much of anything as of late. Still marvel at your work. For those of you wondering what I'm rambling about, ofitg greatly condensed the ignition system allowing me to fire my cannons with electronic fuses. Really awesome kool! I've moved to TN and my Wife and I are building a house as such everything is in storage. I did set up my lathe and mill in our rental house. No KNO4. I need to PM ya. Really good to see your handle!
 
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