Never annealed brass before

After reading the entire page I saw what might be misinformation in one reply.
If Orcon would please post a link for the temperature s of Mapp and Propane gases burning I may learn that what I learned in the 75/76 school year was wrong or that a better oxidizing gas than oxygen is now in use.

Nature Boy said:

I decided to break down and buy a contraption to do the annealing (annealeez)

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I am traveling down that same road in the near future.

Since brass anneals in the 700 degree F range it doesn't need get anywhere close to the red spectrum. Just watch the blue color travel down the neck and it's annealed. Drop it on a towel and do another.

Propane torch, tip of the inner cone directed at the junction between shoulder and neck, rotating the brass using the method of your choice, for 5-6 seconds, verifying the target temp reaches 750 deg using Tempilaq or similar telltale material, no quenching after

That’s the conventional wisdom I’m following

Decoy, the Tempilstiks run around $10-12 each.

I looked at the Annealeez and was thinking of getting one when JMorris offered one of his prototype machines for sale via the forum. So I ordered it from him. For those that have not seen either of the machines in operation, there are lots of videos out there showing how they work.

Here's a reference that a actual metallurgist sent to me when we discussed annealing.

http://www.lfa-wire.com/70-30-brass-wire_c26000.htm

My interest at that time was to anneal .22 brass to swage .224 bullets. More on that later.

Annealing temperatures are given on the "physical properties" portion of the chart, and are listed at "800 - 1400*F". My metallurgist buddy described annealing as a "kinetic process" meaning it is dependent on both time and temperature. It will take longer for the brass to be fully annealed at 800* then at 1400*. My question is, are you really accomplishing anything at 700* for a brief time? That debate will probably never end.

Back to swaging .22 bullets. IMO the annealing step is the most critical because if your brass isn't annealed enough, many bullet noses will split in the final step when you form the points. Its disconcerting to go through all of the work to make a bullet then have it ruined at the final step. So I researched and tried many annealing strategies. I kept track of the cracked noses % so I could quantify the success of my anneal. In summation, I think that 1000*F for 1 hour is the combination that worked for me, and that I will continue to use if I decide to make any more bullets.

My question is, are you really accomplishing anything at 700* for a brief time?

This is why it recommened to apply the TempLac inside the case neck. So you know your getting enough heat to penetrate the wall thickness. If you got uniform heat on the inside it was long enough to draw the hardness back. And we do not need or want it to be dead soft, 1/4 hard is what we are looking for.

"...glowed orange..." That's too hot. Too hot to hold will do though. Should be heating 'em until they change colour and cool 'em.
"...don't think of annealing brass as rocket science..." Exactly. Isn't magic either.

You don't even need to find a welding shop... Amazon has Tempilaq liquid or sticks. This is really the only way you're going to be sure you're reaching the correct temp and not going too hot.

This will answer many annealing questions I think. I found it to be an informative article when I first started annealing.

http://www.texas-mac.com/Annealing_Case_Necks.html

I made this a while back so I could readily do rimmed and rimless cases. The photo is my latest update with a small gear motor to rotate the case. With two torches its about 3 seconds each. If I was going to make another I'd make it horizontal so to keep my hands more away for the flames. The case goes up into the flames under the control of a timer relay and air valve and spring returns down. Pretty simple controls.

Gawd we're getting compilcated...

Gimme a drill, a socket, some white tempilaq, a single (propane ) torch, a dishtowel, a kitchen counter... and an understaing wife.
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4147934&postcount=8

MEHavey said:

Gawd we're getting compilcated...

Gimme a drill, a socket, some white tempilaq, a single (propane ) torch, a dishtowel, a kitchen counter... and an understaing wife.
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4147934&postcount=8

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I'm often doing them by the 100's plus for my lower volume loads. I use a Giraud machine for the bucket loads of rimless prairie dog loads.

Decoy80 said:

After reading the entire page I saw what might be misinformation in one reply.
If Orcon would please post a link for the temperature s of Mapp and Propane gases burning I may learn that what I learned in the 75/76 school year was wrong or that a better oxidizing gas than oxygen is now in use.

Click to expand...

I used the wrong column, thanks for your correction. Still 3650°F is pretty dang hot.
Courtesy of engineeringtoolbox.com :

mstreddy said:

Decoy, the Tempilstiks run around $10-12 each.

I looked at the Annealeez and was thinking of getting one when JMorris offered one of his prototype machines for sale via the forum. So I ordered it from him. For those that have not seen either of the machines in operation, there are lots of videos out there showing how they work.

Click to expand...

I never knew how much welding consumables cost during my career and really didnt think about it. I can remember throwing things like tempilsticks in the dresser drawers in motel rooms all over the country because I went to the tool room and just told what I needed and they handed anything we needed to us without delay. After 2004 I had to start buying things for my own use at home and was amazed at the expense of what is consumed. I thought id always have plenty , wrong. Now I have to call old buddies who are still working and wait until outage season is over or go to the Union Hall to see them. That other substance might be cheaper. I looked today and found a half dozen but none were even near the temp in question but they do come in 25 degree increments. Thanks for the price quote.
Thanks to you Orcon for clearing that up. I used the propane and air combination which like you say is plenty hot. The socket and extension in the drill keep the heat away from you and I just held the brass farther away from the flame until the quenched brass looked good enough to suit me. If I planned to anneal a great number id build a machine or buy one. The chinese extension and socket was just cheap ,i had the drill,vice, and just filled a 5 gallon bucket about half full of water. The spinning drill heats the brass even all way around evenly. It is kinda labor intensive doing a thousand but 300 blackout prepared brass isnt so cheap.

Blue68f100 said:

My question is, are you really accomplishing anything at 700* for a brief time?

This is why it recommened to apply the TempLac inside the case neck. So you know your getting enough heat to penetrate the wall thickness. If you got uniform heat on the inside it was long enough to draw the hardness back. And we do not need or want it to be dead soft, 1/4 hard is what we are looking for.

Click to expand...

Blue68f100 said:

My question is, are you really accomplishing anything at 700* for a brief time?

This is why it recommened to apply the TempLac inside the case neck. So you know your getting enough heat to penetrate the wall thickness. If you got uniform heat on the inside it was long enough to draw the hardness back. And we do not need or want it to be dead soft, 1/4 hard is what we are looking for.[/QUOTE

In answer to accomplishing anything at 700 degrees for a short time is yes and my experience bears this out. The 700 degree thing came from a metallurgial website. Brass is a excellent conductor, much better than steel and it has entirely different properties when subjected to heat. If you get it hot enough to see the color change run down the neck into the taper the entire thickness of the neck will be annealed. That is the reason I don't use tempilac. I agree with post #37 except for the tempilac.

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Just starting to do annealling with a Ken Light BC-800 machine. I'm assuming that these cases are done correctly but would like other's opinions.

Thanks