help choosing a cartridge/caliber for target shooting

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B.Baley

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Hi all,
I am trying to decide on a new caliber ad cartridge (new for me) for general target shooting - not competition.

I shoot at the range and also off the range (forest, desert, open country, etc)

What I am looking for is a caliber/cartridge combo that is;
a) capable of near benchrest accuracy
b) capable of medium range (600 yards)
c) low recoil
d) longish barrel/throat life (bit not a deal killer)
e) not horribly expensive to reload for
f) bolt-action (no AR platform)

The purpose would be to build two fairly inexpensive rigs (or possibly just buy) so that I have two setups that are "the same" to shoot with friends who visit and the kids (12-25) (and wife)

I have a custom builds (.308, .223) - but for this I would like to either buy off the shelf (Savage maybe) or DIY build (Northland shooters supply/savage action/criterion) - so that I can afford at least two packages.

I reload for .308, .223, .270, .300 win - and I have been lucky enough to tune .308 and ..223 into the teens on certain loads - which is not any bragging - just that I enjoy and am at least a little capable in the reloading area (so much to learn still)- and intend to reload for these and not purchase factory ammo.

So,
I have been looking at various 6mm (6mm BR, 6XC, 6mm creedmoor) and while they look "cool" they all seem like barrel/throat burners - although it seems like brass and component availability is getting very good (not like 308 or 223 but you can buy without two weeks of forming brass from something else, etc).

I have considered 6.5mm (creedmoor, 6.5x55 swede, .243, etc.)
I have considered .260
Have considered 7mm-08 and 30BR

Part of me says just build or but two sweet (but not full-on $k customs like my .308) in .223 with a fast twist (1:8 ??? 1:7 ?) and shoot-sh%&t :)
And maybe I am just bored of the .223 ?
(also I have little to no desire for an AR platform)

I don't even know how often they would get used over 300 yards (which I get the .223 can do) but maybe I am just in santa claus mode :)

So maybe, the question ought to be, based on the criteria above why should I NOT just buy (like the Savage 12 F/TR) or build two $1,200 bull-barrel target .223 's ?

The Savage F/TR is about $1,300, 30" barrel, 1:7 twist, and weighs 13" lbs. - but it is single shot only. so If I went that route I think I'd build one instead from a Savage target action, criterion barrel and get a bottom metal for AICS magazine.

Oh man, I feel like a crack addict....
I can't stop.
 
having been down this road, my first recommendation will be that you get it chambered in a cartridge for which there is suitable factory ammo. i take enough people to shoot long range that i needed to make a budget for it. close friends, family etc, i don't mind reloading a bit for. but for most of them, it's nice to say, "i'll provide all the equipment you need, but buy two or three boxes of xyz". even with the guest providing most of their own ammo, wear on the loaner gun barrels was still significant. (figure $650 for a barrel blank and labor to chamber it divided by 2500 round life is still a $0.26/bang just in barrel wear.)

second, since lots of people of various sizes are going to use this rifle, i would recommend a chassis that is very quickly adjustable. something like the whiskey 3 perhaps. stocks like the ones I typically use are very adjustable, but the adjustments are meant to be locked down and require tools to change. imho, spending 5 min adjusting the rifle to the shooter will make their hit percentage go way up and will make the time much more enjoyable for them. down the road, you will appreciate being able to flip a few levers and change the length of pull and comb.

223 with a heavy barrel is just a pleasure to shoot. it's probably a great choice.
some potential downsides of it are lack of energy, which means it won't work with the really fun targets. it's not going to move the flappers on hostage targets or dueling trees, etc. won't reliably set off tannerite at distance (if you're into that sort of thing). it's hard to see misses, and even when you hit, it barely knocks off a dime sized area of paint. so you need pretty good glass to see impacts on paint at distance. and it doesn't make steel ring as loud.
 
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By excluding the AR15 you have excluded perhaps the rifle that best meets your needs. I have won any number of medals at Camp Perry with a 24" flat top AR15, any number of local matches, they are tack drivers all the way out to 600 yards. Much cheaper to shoot than larger calibers. You have to pay attention to wind, because the 223, even with 77 Sierra's, is not the ballistic equal of a 6.5 bullet, but so what. Pay attention to the wind.

You get a AR15 flatop, put on a 24" barrel, to maximize velocity. My barrel is 1:8 so it shoots 68's, 69's, 75's, 77's, and 80 grain bullets. (shoot the 68's and 69's out to three hundred yards, the 77's at 600 yards) Have a lower with a two stage match trigger, put a scope on top, and you have a dynamite rifle. The barrel life will be around 5000 rounds, bullets, powder, brass are much less than the larger calibers.

You can buy an off the shelf rifle that meets this criteria for far less than building a custom bolt gun. And it will be extremely accurate.
 
Hello, welcome to THR!
I have NO good reasons to not buy a Savage and try to wear it out. I love my F/TR (two twenty three), I just got through running up Hornady's fifty five grain SPSXs fast enough to get them to vaporize in mid air. When they stay together and hit a water bottle it is absolutely burst! The cap is the largest piece! Not to mention all the logistic benefits of the two twenty three and it's lack of recoil for new shooters. I find a single shot to be of no detriment. It gives a new shooter 'possession' over each round.

But the Ten GRS in a Six Creedmoor looks very cool. Adjustible stock for varied body types, it has the magazine you were looking for, and it's a Savage! The soft recoiling Sixes, especially the Creedmoor, are not huge barrel burners. When juxtoposed to the performance gains over a two twent three, the longevity is right in line. And if these are not for competition, they wont be worn out after just three or four thousand rounds. A one minute of angle rifle in the hands of a beginner is perfectly adequate. There is also the LRVP to be had for less coin.

Besides, you have the ability to spin on a new barrel at your leisure.

Savage for the win. And I hope Santa is as good to me too! I've been lusting after a LabRadar...
 
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B.Baley said:
Hi all,
I am trying to decide on a new caliber ad cartridge (new for me) for general target shooting - not competition.

I shoot at the range and also off the range (forest, desert, open country, etc)

What I am looking for is a caliber/cartridge combo that is;
a) capable of near benchrest accuracy
b) capable of medium range (600 yards)
c) low recoil
d) longish barrel/throat life (bit not a deal killer)
e) not horribly expensive to reload for
f) bolt-action (no AR platform)

The purpose would be to build two fairly inexpensive rigs (or possibly just buy) so that I have two setups that are "the same" to shoot with friends who visit and the kids (12-25) (and wife)

I have a custom builds (.308, .223) - but for this I would like to either buy off the shelf (Savage maybe) or DIY build (Northland shooters supply/savage action/criterion) - so that I can afford at least two packages.

I reload for .308, .223, .270, .300 win - and I have been lucky enough to tune .308 and ..223 into the teens on certain loads - which is not any bragging - just that I enjoy and am at least a little capable in the reloading area (so much to learn still)- and intend to reload for these and not purchase factory ammo.

So,
I have been looking at various 6mm (6mm BR, 6XC, 6mm creedmoor) and while they look "cool" they all seem like barrel/throat burners - although it seems like brass and component availability is getting very good (not like 308 or 223 but you can buy without two weeks of forming brass from something else, etc).

I have considered 6.5mm (creedmoor, 6.5x55 swede, .243, etc.)
I have considered .260
Have considered 7mm-08 and 30BR

Part of me says just build or but two sweet (but not full-on $k customs like my .308) in .223 with a fast twist (1:8 ??? 1:7 ?) and shoot-sh%&t :)
And maybe I am just bored of the .223 ?
(also I have little to no desire for an AR platform)

I don't even know how often they would get used over 300 yards (which I get the .223 can do) but maybe I am just in santa claus mode :)

So maybe, the question ought to be, based on the criteria above why should I NOT just buy (like the Savage 12 F/TR) or build two $1,200 bull-barrel target .223 's ?

The Savage F/TR is about $1,300, 30" barrel, 1:7 twist, and weighs 13" lbs. - but it is single shot only. so If I went that route I think I'd build one instead from a Savage target action, criterion barrel and get a bottom metal for AICS magazine.

Oh man, I feel like a crack addict....
I can't stop.
Click to expand...
.250 savage, 6.5 Grendel, 6mm ppc. And yes, you are smart to build off the savage, stick with that. Any of those chamberings will do what you're asking, I personally lean towards the ppc, but I'm not the one running your wallet ;). The Grendel is probably THE most popular of the 3, and the .250 with have the lowest b.c.s in the game, I picked on the ppc for cheaper projectiles, longer barrel life than the .243, and with a fast enough twist, you can still run the 107s for giggles. If you want a lil more velocity then we should skip the ppc and br rem and jump right into the dasher. You can get Norma brass from bullets.com too so no fire forming either.
 
Another recommendation for the 6.5 Grendel. Howa and CZ both sell excellent rifles chambered in that round, or you can build one (I've built one and bought one). Factory ammo is relatively cheap and of good quality. Recoil is minimal so it's suitable for nearly all shooters.
 
This, in 6.5 Creedmoor

https://ruger.com/products/precisionRifle/models.html
Street price is about $1200

Or this at under $400. Honestly the Predator has the same barrel and action. Accuracy is the same. You just don't get the cool stock

https://ruger.com/products/americanRiflePredator/specSheets/6973.html

Or the Savage if you prefer. I like the Ruger better but won't argue that it is better than Savage.

The 6.5 Grendel is an excellent choice in an AR platform. It makes no sense to me in a bolt gun. The Creedmoor will shoot much heavier bullets and with good velocity in a short action rifle The Creedmoors recoil is only slightly more than 243 so that isn't a problem.

The 260 CAN be a good option. But the 6.5 does everything SLIGHTLY better. Maybe not enough better for someone who already owns a 260 to trade. But the 260 will be all but dead in another decade, or less. The Creedmoor version is already much easier to find ammo and brass for. The only real advantage 260 has is the ability to make brass from 308 brass. With the availability of 6.5 Creedmoor ammo and brass this is now a moot point. Five years ago this was a valid point.

Same rifles in 308 would my 2nd choice, and just a couple of years ago would have been my 1st choice. But the 6.5 is simply that much better. At 600 yards and under there isn't much real difference other than much less recoil with the 6.5. But if you ever decide to go longer than 600 the 6.5 starts to be significantly better.

Price for factory ammo is virtually the same, but at the moment there are more slightly more options for 308. But there are good options for the Creedmoor. Even Walmart is now selling match ammo loaded with Berger bullets for around $28/box. As a handloader 6.5 bullets are $3-$4 less per box and you need 5-6 gr less powder per round so it is slightly less expensive to load for.
 
Tikka varmint in 223 ($800 ish)
Tikka CTR in 6.5 or 260 or 308 ($1100 ish)

Build a 6mm dasher or two on whatever action you want

Or build a 20-24” ar15 with a good heavy barrel, trigger and stock and try something new
 
Thanks all for the ideas and info so far.
As is probably obvious I am leaning toward the .223 either in one of the OTS target models they sell or a build which isn't much more for Savage using parts and vendors like northlandshooterssupply and such. And I already have a significant amount of reloading equipment, brass, powder and bullets for .223

I have two Savages and have nothing to complain about - I also have a few Rem 700 guns.

Truth be told,
I think the nerd in me is trying to drag me down a rabbit hole with a new cartridge, which is why all the 6mm PPC, Dasher, 6XC, etc. stuff I have been looking at.
I realize for what I am looking to do - nothing special is going on warranting any particular caliber - under 300 yards typically between friends could be nearly anything centerfire....
but, I am also interested in a new cartridge, and learning to load for it and all that comes with that, because I am sick :) I need help :)

Do I NEED a 6mm Creedmoor and shoot LONG skinny high BC bullets? no. would it keep me interested? definitely!

So, .223 in a Savage... or a fancier option....
Oh the woes.

That 10GRS limited run Savage looks pretty cool too...
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/10GRSLR
would need a barrel upgrade though...

I really like the Whiskey 3 chassis mentioned -but that's pretty spendy for this particular project (I can't say I won;t be looking at still though)

semi-on-topic - has anyone here tried out the Rem/Age "hybrid combination of the Remington Model 700 Rifles and a Savage style barrel nut mounted barrel" as available by northlandshooterssupply ? (e.g. theoretically no 6 week wait and $550 for a barrel on a rem 700)
 
6mm BR, perhaps? Maybe a 223 Ackley? I shot a 600 yard mid-range match this summer and the top 3 guys in the F-Class Open shot 6mm BR, 6x47 Lap and 284 Win. I've been wanting a 284 for a while so that's probably going to be my next rifle build.
 
Medium range accuracy 600 yds.......wow......I feel good if I get hand load I feel good with at 400 yds with my 7mm mag, the 30-06 at 300yds, I know they'll shoot farther but the accuracy is iffy.
I must be an under achiever.
JD
 
I’ve recently decided to go 6 Dasher for my next rifle. It’s reported to be a very accurate cartridge with better barrel life than some of the other 6mm options. The fact that Norma is making brass for it seals the deal for me
 
Pick one of the various 6.5's out there. If you're wanting to be able to buy store-bought at any time, the Creedmoor or the 260 would be my choice. Though I have a semi-custom in 6.5 Swede, you don't find store-bought ammo readily available. AS you're a reloader, any of the 6.5's would work. I would probably point you towards the 260 as the barrel life is decent (around 1500 or more if you aren't shooting it when you could light a cigarette off of the barrel) and, as stated above, you can always make brass out of 7mm-08 or 308 brass. You may also consider the same in the AI version. Accuracy is good to great if you do your part. You could hunt with it if you desired. And, it's a round that isn't too much of a 'me-too' round.
 
Nature Boy said:
I’ve recently decided to go 6 Dasher for my next rifle.
Click to expand...
i believe at the PRS finale this past weekend (which was in NW oklahoma, where they like to lay down and stretch it out with targets past 1200 yards), first place was a 6.5x47, and 2nd-5th place were dashers. i could be wrong as i didn't shoot matches this year, but that's what i was told
 
IMO, a 6br is exactly what you are looking for.

My S-I-L has a Savage. Heavy barrel so there's zero recoil. Ultra accurate factory ready. Really easy to load for. Good to 1k.
 
taliv said:
i believe at the PRS finale this past weekend (which was in NW oklahoma, where they like to lay down and stretch it out with targets past 1200 yards), first place was a 6.5x47, and 2nd-5th place were dashers. i could be wrong as i didn't shoot matches this year, but that's what i was told
Click to expand...

I believe you shoot the 6.5x47. Would you mind sharing you thoughts on why you’re going to 6mm BR?

I’m still waffling between those 2 options
 
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