GOA or more NRA?

I'm an NRA member but I resent immediate calls for more money after some disaster. I would like to see a plan for proactive expansion of gun rights that is successful before the tragedy. That the HPA, SAGA, SHARE acts just languished in Congress does not impress me with their lobbying efforts. I expressed the opinion that if the GOP could go to wall opposing Obamacare, Tax cuts, etc. - why not for the RKBA. Ryan stops gun bills. The president and McConnell won't push for reciprocity (I know there is a debate about it). Parties will stop the government over DACA. But for gun rights, oh dear, nothing this session - send up a check.

But when a tragedy occurs - many of the supposed gun rights supporting party jump on the moral panic train to ban something. So why should more money help if they can't pull it off in 'normal' times. Playing defense (we're not Hillary) isn't the way to win.

GEM said:

I'm an NRA member but I resent immediate calls for more money after some disaster. I would like to see a plan for proactive expansion of gun rights that is successful before the tragedy. That the HPA, SAGA, SHARE acts just languished in Congress does not impress me with their lobbying efforts. I expressed the opinion that if the GOP could go to wall opposing Obamacare, Tax cuts, etc. - why not for the RKBA. Ryan stops gun bills. The president and McConnell won't push for reciprocity (I know there is a debate about it). Parties will stop the government over DACA. But for gun rights, oh dear, nothing this session - send up a check.

But when a tragedy occurs - many of the supposed gun rights supporting party jump on the moral panic train to ban something. So why should more money help if they can't pull it off in 'normal' times. Playing defense (we're not Hillary) isn't the way to win.

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That saying "never let a good crisis go to waste" doesn't just apply to the Anti side, it applies to all sides. The NRA is an entity that exists under the guise of protecting and expanding the 2nd Amendment, but federally, I haven't seen much done since the AWB ended in 2004 that would be considered pro-2A. All the NRA does currently is keep the dam from bursting with semi-auto bans and registration legislation being passed. Beyond that, every mass shooting, every time there's a Dem president or controlled Congress, all the NRA does is tell you where to send the check.

There's no excuse why with having Republicans in control that suppressors haven't been deregulated and national reciprocity passed. The NRA should be at the forefront with educational content to show the value of a device that makes a firearm be damaging to hearing and painful to something that's still loud, but not dangerous to the ears. They've totally failed and it's obvious that whatever is in the NFA, the NRA is completely clueless and uninterested in removing them from that law.

Congratulations NRA, suppressors, SBR/SBS are forever regulated. Our great granchildren's grandchildren will never be able to buy a suppressor in a store without having to pay the tax stamp and 3 month wait.

Having Ryan and McConnell in charge doesn't help either, but they're chosen by their party, which is made up of the same people who promise to protect gun rights every 2 to 6 years during their campaigns. It's obvious that apart from guys like Cruz and Rand Paul that the Republicans are playing us.

When it comes to guns, the Democrats are pro-confiscation and the Republicans are against any new anti gun laws. They will sit on pro gun bills and if the Dems ever pass anti legislation and it becomes law, the Republicans will do the same thing they did with Obamacare- talk it, but fail to walk it.

Doesn't matter, all that's important is they use pro-gun people for votes and the NRA can continue to tell us where to send the check.

bob40caliber said:

Wrong sir. Do the research. It's the NRA that has the multi million dollar building not GOA.
And it's Wayne Lapierre who gets a salary of $5 million per year. And Chris Cox gets a salary of $1.5 million per year. Not any GOA people.
Do the research!

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you are correct maestro.

However I do support both. With the NRA i give just the 2 year rate for my dues. I have contacted the NRA before about maybe putting a President in that would have appeal to women, minorities etc but it falls on deaf ears. With GOA you can join for whatever amount you can afford. For me it's $40 and then usually $5 every couple months throughout the year. I like their no compromise approach.

v-fib

GEM said:

I'm an NRA member but I resent immediate calls for more money after some disaster. I would like to see a plan for proactive expansion of gun rights that is successful before the tragedy. That the HPA, SAGA, SHARE acts just languished in Congress does not impress me with their lobbying efforts. I expressed the opinion that if the GOP could go to wall opposing Obamacare, Tax cuts, etc. - why not for the RKBA. Ryan stops gun bills. The president and McConnell won't push for reciprocity (I know there is a debate about it). Parties will stop the government over DACA. But for gun rights, oh dear, nothing this session - send up a check.

But when a tragedy occurs - many of the supposed gun rights supporting party jump on the moral panic train to ban something. So why should more money help if they can't pull it off in 'normal' times. Playing defense (we're not Hillary) isn't the way to win.

Click to expand...

Playing defense isn't the way to win, but our hands always get forced after a tragedy like this. If the NRA wasn't so vivaciously attacked, I wouldn't feel the need to donate more money right now.

And the Hearing Protection Act did have some amount of traction in Congress and had a chance (however small it may have been) of passing, but the timing of the Las Vegas shooting pretty much killed it.

bassjam said:

I vote both. I had actually let my GOA membership lapse several years ago, but I re-joined last week. I also joined my state gun rights organization last week.

The GOA doesn’t get quite the headlines (and hate) that the NRA gets, but often you’ll hear a politician quietly give credit to the GOA for gun related legislation or overturned laws so I know they’re effective.

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Really? I don't believe I've ever heard of the GOA successfully pushing gun laws of any kind. Are you talking about Federal or State level? If that is the case, they are doing a poor job of letting gun owners know about their accomplishments. I've seen Larry Pratt on news shows occasionally, but he often comes off as cranky or angry (as does LaPierre at times). The SAF accomplishments are much more apparent.

Even if you can't afford it right now, everybody buys stuff from Amazon. Instead of using amazon.com, use smile.amazon.com to buy stuff. Doesn't cost you any extra, but you can designate a charity to give a portion to, and you can change any time. I do SAF right now. There are also browser plugins to auto redirect to smile.

JN01 said:

Really? I don't believe I've ever heard of the GOA successfully pushing gun laws of any kind. Are you talking about Federal or State level? If that is the case, they are doing a poor job of letting gun owners know about their accomplishments. I've seen Larry Pratt on news shows occasionally, but he often comes off as cranky or angry (as does LaPierre at times). The SAF accomplishments are much more apparent.

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Yes, please let me know, too. I'm sure they've had some successes, but I'm not aware of them. SAF is directly responsible for McDonald v. Chicago etc. NRA was criticized for their wishy-washy support around the time, particularly DC v. Heller.

I have never been a fan of the SAF organization.
I remember in their infancy they were just a money grubbing outfit.
Read their mission statement from their own website.....strikes me as very, very weak.
Even As corrupt as the NRA is......I would trust them more Than SAF----- but most of all the GOA is the most dedicated gun group we have. They never consider Compromise. And they do Not constantly think of Ways to ask for more money. And they never conspire With our Enemies to help along anti Gun legislation to Create panic which creates new members and more donations as one organization does.
You folks Who did Your research know that one Of these groups has their finger Prints on every Anti-gun Legislation that has passed here since 1934.
The GOA do not look to fatten their wallets and their membership roles on the backs of more anti gun laws.

To reinforce my earlier post I see where the NRA is suing to block the new Florida law. NOWHERE did I see mention of any other gun rights organisation taking a stand on this. It's self explanatory.

bob40caliber said:

I have never been a fan of the SAF organization.
I remember in their infancy they were just a money grubbing outfit.
Read their mission statement from their own website.....strikes me as very, very weak.
Even As corrupt as the NRA is......I would trust them more Than SAF----- but most of all the GOA is the most dedicated gun group we have. They never consider Compromise. And they do Not constantly think of Ways to ask for more money. And they never conspire With our Enemies to help along anti Gun legislation to Create panic which creates new members and more donations as one organization does.
You folks Who did Your research know that one Of these groups has their finger Prints on every Anti-gun Legislation that has passed here since 1934.
The GOA do not look to fatten their wallets and their membership roles on the backs of more anti gun laws.

Click to expand...

The NRA is certainly not perfect and has made missteps, but I also believe that their actions are sometimes mischaracterized. For example, the Clinton assault weapon ban was going to pass regardless of how much the NRA opposed it. However, they were able to pressure legislators to modify the bill to at least blunt the impact, i.e. sunset provision, instant check vs. waiting period, etc.

Standing by your principles and being no-compromise is noble, but if by doing so you accomplish nothing, it has little value in a practical sense. I agree that we shouldn't surrender anything to the anti-gunners since they will offer nothing in return, but it is also unrealistic to think that we can achieve all our goals in one giant leap or that we will never suffer setbacks.

I support both.

GOA is pretty good at taking $ and not much else.

doubleh said:

To reinforce my earlier post I see where the NRA is suing to block the new Florida law. NOWHERE did I see mention of any other gun rights organisation taking a stand on this. It's self explanatory.

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What you don't understand is the NRA files the suit. $80.to do that.
Then they go to the local organization and tells them ...we filed the suit. You guys send out the attorney that you have on retainer to handle the rest. So, for $80. The NR A looks like the hero but in reality that's where they wash their hands of it.
Look....I am a Life member of the NRA and a member of GO A and a member of state organization, all 3 are in need of our support right now. But one of these groups behind closed doors ( in the past) has agreed to giving away certain rights a) as a compromise and b) to increase panic, garner more donations and gain new members. c) it increases business for their real supporters----the manufacturers who gives them millions upon millions every year. This has been going on since 1934. And this is the group that pays one gent $5,000,000. A year and another gent $1,500,000. A year. I wish I could say they only have us, gun owners interests in mind.....but that is not true.
As I always say.....do the research......it is all out there for anyone to see. Just requires a little work.

bob40caliber said:

I have never been a fan of the SAF organization.
I remember in their infancy they were just a money grubbing outfit.
Read their mission statement from their own website.....strikes me as very, very weak.
Even As corrupt as the NRA is......I would trust them more Than SAF----- but most of all the GOA is the most dedicated gun group we have. They never consider Compromise. And they do Not constantly think of Ways to ask for more money. And they never conspire With our Enemies to help along anti Gun legislation to Create panic which creates new members and more donations as one organization does.
You folks Who did Your research know that one Of these groups has their finger Prints on every Anti-gun Legislation that has passed here since 1934.
The GOA do not look to fatten their wallets and their membership roles on the backs of more anti gun laws.

Click to expand...

Do some research. The SAF has been behind the big wins: Heller, McDonald, carry in DC and Illinois.

bob40caliber said:

Wrong sir. Do the research. It's the NRA that has the multi million dollar building not GOA.
And it's Wayne Lapierre who gets a salary of $5 million per year. And Chris Cox gets a salary of $1.5 million per year. Not any GOA people.
Do the research!

Click to expand...

V-fib said:

you are correct maestro.

However I do support both. With the NRA i give just the 2 year rate for my dues. I have contacted the NRA before about maybe putting a President in that would have appeal to women, minorities etc but it falls on deaf ears. With GOA you can join for whatever amount you can afford. For me it's $40 and then usually $5 every couple months throughout the year. I like their no compromise approach.

v-fib

Click to expand...

Actually, that isn’t correct. LaPierre And Cox both make right around 1 million each. One year (2015 I think) LaPierre cashed in a retirement policy and got an additional 3-4 million, which rounded it up to roughly 5million.
Now one can certainly argue that’s still to much, but let’s be honest about the numbers.
For what it’s worth I wouldn’t have either job for 1 million a year. The man’s nickname to half the country was Jihadi Wayne he was featured on a magazine cover dressed as a terrorist. Honestly they are two of the most hated people in the country.... count me out, for any amount of cash.

If it matters I’m a life NRA member, and also a GOA member, and give to 2AF occasionally. But since the NRA supported the bump stock ban I haven’t been supporting them, though I will start back one day.... I did same with the 2AF when they endorsed the manchin-toomey background check bill back in the day.

Another thing is, politicians and media attack the NRA daily, not so much the GOA.... their is a reason for that, one has significantly more influence than the other.

You are wrong sir.....the IRS filing is available on line and it clearly shows $5mil. For LaPierre.

https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/521710886/201643169349304489/IRS990

Part 7......pay attention to Table E.....

They try to hide the large part of his compensation.....but it is there.

Now I understand they try different ways of hiding this in for years but look and you shall see.

.............................................................
President
1.00
.................
3.00 X X 0 0 0
(2) Carolyn D Meadows......................................................................
Vice President
1.00
.................
1.00 X X 0 0 0
(3) Allan D Cors Ex Officio......................................................................
Ex Officio
1.00
.................
20.00 X 0 0 0
(4) Wayne L LaPierre......................................................................
Ex Officio
1.00
.................
60.00 X 0 5,051,249 59,736
(5) Joe M Allbaugh......................................................................
Trustee
1.00
.................
1.00 X 0 0 0
(6) William A Bachenberg......................................................................
Trustee
1.00
.................
1.00 X 0 0 0
(7) Frank R Brownell thru April 2015......................................................................
President Trustee
1.00
.................
X X 0 0 0
(8) Susan Hayes......................................................................
Trustee
1.00
.................
X 0 0 0
(9) Steve Hornady......................................................................
Trustee
1.00
.................
1.00 X 0 0

4) Wayne L LaPierre......................................................................
Ex Officio
1.00
.................
60.00 X 0 5,051,249

Let me ask you all this........if you are a dedicated, purist, defender of the 2nd Amendment....who care so deeply in your heart that the 2A is our most important right, which without it, all other rights can be lost.......would you do Wayne's job for $100,000 let year? Would you do it for $200,000. Would you do it for $60,000? How about $30,000. Or maybe for $1.
Or would you pay yourself $5 million?
Enough said.

Several years ago the NRA got involved in issues outside their pro-gun charter. Now they demand i give my soul to the Republican party: i refuse to do that. In the March issue of The American Rifleman magazine Wayne La Pierre raged about "Democrats Equals Socialist" while the Republican party in Florida passed some serious anti-gun stuff.

Check out the Safari Club International. My money now goes to that organization.

DeepSouth said:

Actually, that isn’t correct. LaPierre And Cox both make right around 1 million each. One year (2015 I think) LaPierre cashed in a retirement policy and got an additional 3-4 million, which rounded it up to roughly 5million.
Now one can certainly argue that’s still to much, but let’s be honest about the numbers.
For what it’s worth I wouldn’t have either job for 1 million a year. The man’s nickname to half the country was Jihadi Wayne he was featured on a magazine cover dressed as a terrorist. Honestly they are two of the most hated people in the country.... count me out, for any amount of cash. .......

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Geeeesh... I don't get all this LaPierre hate, I just dont. It's not that I love the guy and think he's some wonder-kind or anything ..... actually my reaction to him is sorta "meh....Mr. VanillaMan..." But IMHO those characterizing him as Jihad Wayne are dimwits who are most likely on the extreme antigun bandwagon. The NRA has been disdained by our side at times for being too willing to surrender on some gunlaws....although there are also errors of fact made by the progun side here as well, to be sure.
Anyway, I belong to the NRA, and a few other progun organizations as well, "any port in a storm," as the old bromide goes, so I feel Ok with that philosophy of dealing with politics and maybe I just don't get riled up much about one man's eccentricities so much as a result ...

bob40caliber said:

Let me ask you all this........if you are a dedicated, purist, defender of the 2nd Amendment....who care so deeply in your heart that the 2A is our most important right, which without it, all other rights can be lost.......would you do Wayne's job for $100,000 let year? Would you do it for $200,000. Would you do it for $60,000? How about $30,000. Or maybe for $1.
Or would you pay yourself $5 million?
Enough said.

Click to expand...

As I already stated, I wouldn’t do it for any amount of money.
And for what it worth that tax form was from 2015, the same year I conceded he did get roughly 5 million... how about find it another year.

Either way, this is going nowhere and not on topic by any means so I’ll respectfully bow out. You can consider that a win for you if you want.

Good bye, and I hope you have a nice day.

DeepSouth ---Not looking for a win.
Just want some truth to get out.
I remain a NRA member. Ideally, we need to change the NRA and we need to change it from
within. Problem is the board has no power.....they are just figure heads. The officers have ALL the power and runs things however they wish. So, that makes it almost impossible to change.
But I remain with some hope.
You have a good day also.

Still waiting on a list of GOAs accomplishments. Anybody? Not trying to be snarky, if they are effective, I might kick them a few bucks, but so far, haven't seen anything.

2016:

1. Exposing Hillary Clinton’s Anti-Gun Agenda”–As the November 8 presidential election was approaching, GOA “[published] several YouTube videos, articles and Social Media posts that exposed [Hillary Clinton’s] gun-grabbing agenda. GOA also educated millions of voters around the country, helping to elect many pro-gun Representatives and Senators in close elections.”
2. Killing the Anti-Gun “Sentencing Bill”–GOA fought this bill in the Spring of 2016. In essence, the “Sentencing-Bill” would have meant that “a military veteran who is suffering from PTSD — and who has been labeled as a prohibited person — would get increased penalties for simply possessing a gun under this bill. All this would happen to decent gun owners, even while penalties for drug traffickers would be reduced.” In late May, GOA published Senator Tom Cotton’s (R-Ark.) announcement that the “Sentencing Bill” was dead.
3. GOA Influenced Supreme Court–On February 29, 2016, Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas broke with his 10 years of silence on the bench to ask about misdemeanor offices being used to suspend Constitutional rights. GOA points to a Mother Jones’ report which said, “[Thomas’] questions were based on the brief filed in that case by Gun Owners of America. And the anti-gun lawyer in the case, representing the Obama Administration, was reportedly ‘stumped.’”
4. GOA credited as “THE organization” which led fight that killed “no fly, no buy”–According to GOA, their “grassroots opposition” to “no fly, no buy,” caused Senator Harry Reid to say, “Gun Owners of America is even worse than bad.”
5. Successes in backing “Constitutional Carry”–GOA supported legislation that abolished the requirement for a concealed carry permit in four states in 2016. Those states–Idaho, Mississippi, Missouri, and West Virginia–“now bring the total number of Constitutional Carry states to twelve.”
6. Led Push for “Constitutional Carry” at federal level–“GOA’s grassroots deluged congressional desks with thousands upon thousands of emails and postcards in 2016, resulting in more than 150 Representatives and Senators cosponsoring Constitutional Carry reciprocity legislation.” GOA believes national reciprocity can be a reality once Donald Trump assumes office in 2017.
7. GOA’s Erich Pratt named “Gun Hero”–GOA executive director was awarded “Gun Hero of the Day” by The Truth About Guns because of the way he destroyed a CNN anchor’s gun control arguments in January. He was invited back on the same show in June and afterward, “media outlets said the CNN host was ’embarrassed,’ ‘schooled’ or ‘crushed’ during the debate.”
8. GOA grassroots encouraged state legislators to override veto’s of permitless carry–“In two of the states where Constitutional Carry passed this year, Gun Owners of America energized gun owners and legislators to override gubernatorial vetoes. The loud, collective voice of gun owners in West Virginia and Missouri overpowered Bloomberg’s money and his misrepresentations about permitless carry.”
9. GOA succeeded in defeating pro-gun control SCOTUS nominee Merrick Garland–GOA was quick to lobby Senators to oppose any SCOTUS nominee put forth by Obama in the wake of Antonin Scalia’s death. And when “a couple of Republican Senators initially favored holding hearings or a vote to place Obama’s anti-gun nominee, Merrick Garland, on the court,” GOA launched a grassroots “blitzkrieg” that convinced the Senators to drop the idea.
10. GOA rallied Maine voters to oppose Bloomberg-backed gun control on the November ballot–GOA rallied Maine voters to oppose Question 3, a Michael Bloomberg-backed gun control initiative that would have expanded background checks in the state. The initiative was “backed by millions of Bloomberg dollars” and it lost.
11. They Did Not Conspire With The Opposition Behind Closed Doors To Usher In More Gun Control Like The NRA Did. Do You Think Its A Coincidence That Before Trump Did The Bump Stock Command....he met With the NRA? And before Scott signed that FL. Bill he met with the NRA. Another coincidence?